better resume..hopkins,pacman

[damned1974]

Manny moving up to WW was a joke. Nobody ever gave him a chance when he was fighting below 135. Pacman eclipses Hopkins as he shocked most people who believed he was getting ktfo!

LOL-Manny was the underdog against Oscar,apart from that he was the bookmakers favourite to win in most of his fights while Hopkins has defied the odds fighting at his age against the top opponents.

[JmH Reborn]

I think The Executioner not only has the better resume, but is the greater fighter. All things being equal, Hopkins would decapitate Pacquaio.

Hopkins was the underdog against Tito, who was/is one of the greatest WW of all-time, and moved up successfully to KO opponents in Jr. MW and MW, making him viable. He didn't just beat him, he thoroughly dominated him.

Oscar De La Hoya was viable with his technical abilities and power. Hopkins wasn't a great underdog, but people gave Oscar a chance.

He was an underdog against Tarver, he nearly killed him

He was an underdog against Pavlik, he nearly killed him.

He defeated Glenn Johnson, a great fighter

He defeated Winky Wright, who is HoF material and wasn't beat in over 10 years at the time.

Other than being beaten soundly by RJJ in '93, Hopkins was never dominated or throughly beaten by an opponent in defeat. You can make a case that he won the Calzaghe fight, the JT fights and the recent Pascal fights. An objective viewer would look at those and not just a black and white W/L column. Down two times against the hometown fighter, and he still secures a draw.

Pac has some good wins, Barrerra, JMM, Morales, Cotto and Hatton. An objective viewer will look at those wins and losses as well. Was Morales a complete fighter after their first fight? Was Barerra prime? Why was Cotto at a catchweight? Did he really beat JMM?

I like em both, but I believe Hopkins is just greater, in the ring and with his accomplishments by way of who he beat

[jrosales13]

I think The Executioner not only has the better resume, but is the greater fighter. All things being equal, Hopkins would decapitate Pacquaio.

Hopkins was the underdog against Tito, who was/is one of the greatest WW of all-time, and moved up successfully to KO opponents in Jr. MW and MW, making him viable. He didn't just beat him, he thoroughly dominated him.

Oscar De La Hoya was viable with his technical abilities and power. Hopkins wasn't a great underdog, but people gave Oscar a chance.

He was an underdog against Tarver, he nearly killed him

He was an underdog against Pavlik, he nearly killed him.

He defeated Glenn Johnson, a great fighter

He defeated Winky Wright, who is HoF material and wasn't beat in over 10 years at the time.

Other than being beaten soundly by RJJ in '93, Hopkins was never dominated or throughly beaten by an opponent in defeat. You can make a case that he won the Calzaghe fight, the JT fights and the recent Pascal fights. An objective viewer would look at those and not just a black and white W/L column. Down two times against the hometown fighter, and he still secures a draw.

Pac has some good wins, Barrerra, JMM, Morales, Cotto and Hatton. An objective viewer will look at those wins and losses as well. Was Morales a complete fighter after their first fight? Was Barerra prime? Why was Cotto at a catchweight? Did he really beat JMM?

I like em both, but I believe Hopkins is just greater, in the ring and with his accomplishments by way of who he beat

Being better, winning in a H2H match up, doesn't equate to being greater FYI.

[straightleft]

Would you say the quality of opponents that Manny has recently had better than prime rising fighters,some undefeated???? In fact,I can't think of many undefeated prime fighters worth a **** that Manny has fought-can you?

You afraid to tell us Hopkins biggest wins as you afraid someone will put a big holes in your arguments and be picked apart. Its not Pac faults when he moved up to welterweight after he destroyed the undefeated lineal champ at 140 that Floyd, Cotto, Mosley, Clottey and Margarito was the men at welterweight. Your lack of boxing knowledge tells you undefeated welterweight will beat the men above in their reign. You hold on so much to the belief of being undefeated = great like the certain fan base here. LOL!

[jrosales13]

thats his point..that makes it a great win

So then, how great is Pacquiao win over Oscar?

What?

Were you high when you posted this?

[damned1974]

You afraid to tell us Hopkins biggest wins as you afraid someone will put a big holes in your arguments and be picked apart. Its not Pac faults when he moved up to welterweight after he destroyed the undefeated lineal champ at 140 that Floyd, Cotto, Mosley, Clottey and Margarito was the men at welterweight. Your lack of boxing knowledge tells you undefeated welterweight will beat the men above in their reign. You hold on so much to the belief of being undefeated = great like the certain fan base here. LOL!

So if undefeated or prime means nothing,why hasn't Manny faced many? I guess the few pounds he wanted off of fighters meant nothing either....wonder why he asked for it.

Bernard's record,as Manny's can be found online.If you have watched this sport as long as I have,then you would agree that Hopkins fought his key opposition while they were in a better state in their career....no holes in that arguement.You just keep racking your brain thinking of when Manny has fought better opposition (on their way up,not down) than Bernard...

Undefeated means something if that opponent has been plowing through strong competition (ala Pavlik,Trinidad,etc).In Chavez jr's case,it means nothing.

Idiots like you think meaningless fights with a current Mosely (who should have lost his last 2 fights) mean something special,as well as being handed belts for fighting guys with big question marks over their heads...

Let me ask you-would you say Morales was in top form with his career when he fought Manny the second and third time (hell,even in the first fight he wasn't exactly prime)....hell,is Shane? Did Cotto look to lack a bit of fire after he was beaten up by Tony? Did Tony not get ko'd and then have a long period of inactivity with only one bum fight before facing Manny????Was Diaz ever spectacular? Did Hatton look brilliant after Floyd (keep in mind,he was on ***** street against Lazcano and the majority of the boxing public questioned his confidence after Floyd beat him)???

Manny's career for the most part has been paved and set up against fights that had much smaller risk than Bernard's...as exciting of a fighter as he is,he has mainly been facing ordinary "has-been" opponent on their way down-not on their way up.If you think that is special,you have probably been eating way too many paint chips.

[jrosales13]

So if undefeated or prime means nothing,why hasn't Manny faced many? I guess the few pounds he wanted off of fighters meant nothing either....wonder why he asked for it.

Bernard's record,as Manny's can be found online.If you have watched this sport as long as I have,then you would agree that Hopkins fought his key opposition while they were in a better state in their career....no holes in that arguement.You just keep racking your brain thinking of when Manny has fought better opposition (on their way up,not down) than Bernard...

Undefeated means something if that opponent has been plowing through strong competition (ala Pavlik,Trinidad,etc).In Chavez jr's case,it means nothing.

Idiots like you think meaningless fights with a current Mosely (who should have lost his last 2 fights) mean something special,as well as being handed belts for fighting guys with big question marks over their heads...

Let me ask you-would you say Morales was in top form with his career when he fought Manny the second and third time (hell,even in the first fight he wasn't exactly prime)....hell,is Shane? Did Cotto look to lack a bit of fire after he was beaten up by Tony? Did Tony not get ko'd and then have a long period of inactivity with only one bum fight before facing Manny????Was Diaz ever spectacular? Did Hatton look brilliant after Floyd (keep in mind,he was on ***** street against Lazcano and the majority of the boxing public questioned his confidence after Floyd beat him)???

Manny's career for the most part has been paved and set up against fights that had much smaller risk than Bernard's...as exciting of a fighter as he is,he has mainly been facing ordinary "has-been" opponent on their way down-not on their way up.If you think that is special,you have probably been eating way too many paint chips.

Such a BS, but whatever. And, Hatton had win against top 10 JWW after Floyd and Lazcano prior to Pac.

Name all the fighters who have won 4 lineal titles...I will wait, is a short list...A very short list. And, that counts for a lot.

2 of the original 8 weight-classes, Flyweight and featherweight. Those 2 weight-classes have over a 100 years of boxing history. I repeat over a 100 of boxing history. Do you know how many great fighters fought in that weight-class? Do you? Now name me all the fighters who have won a lineal title in both weight-classes. Go ahead, take your time, is a very short list also.

Name all the fighters who have won a lineal featherweight title and won a lineage championship at 140 or above....Go ahead and name all those fighters.

You guys put so much stock of what Pac has done after Oscar, and rightfully so. I agree. But, Pac had done a lot before Oscar. Pac was already a first ballot HOF'er before fighting Oscar.

All of that goes to resumes, and against Pac win over Barrera is better than any Hopkins win.

[jrosales13]

MAnny hands down. He stills goes up in weight and takes the best of them while B-hop beat WW Tito and Oscar (both looked like fatman vs Hopkins)

I still think winky got the W but it could go any way
$h!t he couldn't even be Jermain Taylor twice for crying out loud.
So we got Tarver and PAvlik. I still think he could beat Tarver any day but coming down after that movie to fight B-Hop damage him a bit.

Not true at all.

[jrosales13]

the question was bigger resume not bigger wins why change the topic at hand?? hopkins and its not even close.

Elaborate more please.

[straightleft]

So if undefeated or prime means nothing,why hasn't Manny faced many? I guess the few pounds he wanted off of fighters meant nothing either....wonder why he asked for it.

Bernard's record,as Manny's can be found online.If you have watched this sport as long as I have,then you would agree that Hopkins fought his key opposition while they were in a better state in their career....no holes in that arguement.You just keep racking your brain thinking of when Manny has fought better opposition (on their way up,not down) than Bernard...

Undefeated means something if that opponent has been plowing through strong competition (ala Pavlik,Trinidad,etc).In Chavez jr's case,it means nothing.

Idiots like you think meaningless fights with a current Mosely (who should have lost his last 2 fights) mean something special,as well as being handed belts for fighting guys with big question marks over their heads...

Let me ask you-would you say Morales was in top form with his career when he fought Manny the second and third time (hell,even in the first fight he wasn't exactly prime)....hell,is Shane? Did Cotto look to lack a bit of fire after he was beaten up by Tony? Did Tony not get ko'd and then have a long period of inactivity with only one bum fight before facing Manny????Was Diaz ever spectacular? Did Hatton look brilliant after Floyd (keep in mind,he was on ***** street against Lazcano and the majority of the boxing public questioned his confidence after Floyd beat him)???

Manny's career for the most part has been paved and set up against fights that had much smaller risk than Bernard's...as exciting of a fighter as he is,he has mainly been facing ordinary "has-been" opponent on their way down-not on their way up.If you think that is special,you have probably been eating way too many paint chips.

You picking apart what have Pac done lately and yet if he stayed at 130 or 135 do you think he will be much greater than he is as of now? Pac became one of the youngest champ after beating lineal champ Sasakul who beat the man who beat the man, with just two weeks short notice beat the hell out of Ledwaba arguably the man at 122, moved up to 126 and beat the man lineal champ Barrera who beat the man who beat the man, The fact that Morales fight was close enough to warrant a rematch nobody been telling us back then Morales was shot. Not even after his loss to Rahem simply because the fans said Morales just went up too far from his best weight. They said he beat Pac again in the rematch but then Pac proved them wrong and ko Morales for the first time in his career. Then the stories came out Morales was past his prime more so after he koed him in their 3rd fight. He also beaten Marquez and Hatton both were lineal champ in their respective weight classes. Pac could retire that time and still will be considered greater than Hopkins. What Pac has been done now are just the icing in the cake of his great career.