How can a fan of boxing hate on Pacquiao

[empiricix]

I give him props for beating cotto. But he shouldnt have been fighting Cotto in the first place, he should have fought Mosley. Mosley was going to fight Clottey but backed out trying to fight Pac. Pac opted for lesser comp in Cotto, and then fought Clottey who was coming off a loss. Margs had 2 bad perfomances and a suspension. TP gets this crap off by blaming it on failed "Floyd negotiations" attempts. Boxing politics are to blame. He's an awesome fighter though.

Cotto had already defeated Mosley two years earlier, so how can you claim that Pac chose the weaker competition in Cotto? Again, this is hindsight talking.

You also forget that Mosley offered to fight Pac at a catchweight of 142 or 143, which, in addition to his age, would have given critics more ammo against Pac.

The simple fact is that Cotto, Clottey, Mosely and Mayweather were the cream of the crop at 147 at the time, and Pac fought two of them and tried to fight the victor over the remaining two. Had Mosley won against Mayweather, he would have been next in Pac's radar rather than Margarito.

[IronDanHamza]

All the more reason that we have to give him credit for fighting one of the titleholders at 147 despite the fact that there is doubt as to his effectiveness against full-fledged welterweights.

But if that is what's really bugging you, I have a simply solution for you. Simply consider Clottey as the victor over Cotto and the true champ. Thus, Cotto was the tune-up fight at a catchweight, and the title fight was against Clottey at the full 147.

Lol, that would be great, but that isn't what happened though is it. Yes it was close but the fact is Cotto won the fight and Cotto was the champion. I can't consider the title fight to be against Clottey at 147 because the title fight wasnt against Clottey at 147 it was against Cotto at 145 lol

[IronDanHamza]

Cotto had already defeated Mosley two years earlier, so how can you claim that Pac chose the weaker competition in Cotto? Again, this is hindsight talking.

You also forget that Mosley offered to fight Pac at a catchweight of 142 or 143, which, in addition to his age, would have given critics more ammo against Pac.

The simple fact is that Cotto, Clottey, Mosely and Mayweather were the cream of the crop at 147 at the time, and Pac fought two of them and tried to fight the victor over the remaining two. Had Mosley won against Mayweather, he would have been next in Pac's radar rather than Margarito.

Because Mosley was the #1 Lineal champion, and was looking alot more impressive than Cotto at that particular time, thus being the #1 in the division. Sure, Cotto beat Mosley but that was before Cotto had his soul snatched and a tough fight with Clottey. At that time Mosley was the best optionat 147, Period. Cotto was still the next best option and a live opponent though so i give Manny full credit for that.

[empiricix]

Lol, that would be great, but that isn't what happened though is it. Yes it was close but the fact is Cotto won the fight and Cotto was the champion. I can't consider the title fight to be against Clottey at 147 because the title fight wasnt against Clottey at 147 it was against Cotto at 145 lol

You're too hung up on the technicalities to appreciate the fact that Pac fought 2 of the best welters at the time (Cotto and Clottey) and tried to fight the winner of the two other best welters (Floyd).

In all honesty, I don't put too much stock in Pac's 7 weight division titles. I would rather celebrate the fact that he is the only 4 lineal titlist ever. Thus, every fight thereafter is simply gravy.

[IronDanHamza]

You're too hung up on the technicalities to appreciate the fact that Pac fought 2 of the best welters at the time (Cotto and Clottey) and tried to fight the winner of the two other best welters (Floyd).

In all honesty, I don't put too much stock in Pac's 7 weight division titles. I would rather celebrate the fact that he is the only 4 lineal titlist ever. Thus, every fight thereafter is simply gravy.

No no your wrong about that my friend. Where do you have that impression? I have stated numerous times i give Pacqiauo's resume a ton of credit, catchweight or not he fought Cotto, who was a legit threat regardless to the weight, i dont believe the weight effected him, and he fought Clottey, and although i dont really rate Clottey as much, the fact is the was still a top 5 welterweight, and you can't do anything but respect Manny for that. Just because i don't support the catchweights for the titles that Manny is doing, doesnt mean im bashing him, Manny has an incredible resume, Period.

[empiricix]

Because Mosley was the #1 Lineal champion, and was looking alot more impressive than Cotto at that particular time, thus being the #1 in the division. Sure, Cotto beat Mosley but that was before Cotto had his soul snatched and a tough fight with Clottey. At that time Mosley was the best optionat 147, Period. Cotto was still the next best option and a live opponent though so i give Manny full credit for that.

Actually, that's not true. The lineal title at welterweight was vacant at the time. However, he was considered as one of the best, if not the best among the current welterweights at the time. If Mosley had won over Floyd, then it is undeniable that he and Pac would have been the next best and most logical fight to make. Mosley would have had his day with Pac eventually. But after losing to Floyd in that fashion, no one else had any interest in seeing Mosley fight Pac.

My point is that no single fighter can dictate the flow of history, not even Pac. So, it is unfair to blame him for what did or didn't happen according to our expectations. For example, if Floyd didn't retire, Oscar wouldn't have cherry-picked Pac. Pac wouldn't have dared to leapfrog over 135 and 140. Hatton would still be fighting. Cotto would still be considered as a P4P fighter. There wouldn't be any demand for Pac-Mayweather. We wouldn't be arguing about any of this. LOL

[empiricix]

No no your wrong about that my friend. Where do you have that impression? I have stated numerous times i give Pacqiauo's resume a ton of credit, catchweight or not he fought Cotto, who was a legit threat regardless to the weight, i dont believe the weight effected him, and he fought Clottey, and although i dont really rate Clottey as much, the fact is the was still a top 5 welterweight, and you can't do anything but respect Manny for that. Just because i don't support the catchweights for the titles that Manny is doing, doesnt mean im bashing him, Manny has an incredible resume, Period.

I hear you, bro. That's why I'm saying that we should just focus on enjoying the fights themselves rather than allowing the politics and drama dilute our appreciation of a fighter's accomplishments. For example, if we can just look beyond the Margacheato scandal and the catchweight title fight issue, then Pac-Margo promises to be a good scrap between two warriors. Isn't that what most of us hope for in a boxing match?

[IronDanHamza]

I hear you, bro. That's why I'm saying that we should just focus on enjoying the fights themselves rather than allowing the politics and drama dilute our appreciation of a fighter's accomplishments. For example, if we can just look beyond the Margacheato scandal and the catchweight title fight issue, then Pac-Margo promises to be a good scrap between two warriors. Isn't that what most of us hope for in a boxing match?

Yeah i guess your right. Although i disagree with the catchweights for titles, i dont particularly disagree witht he catchweights. Well, not Cotto's, nor Margarito's, and of course the main thing is we get a good fight. Maybe its the whole making history thing why im so concerned, who knows. The actual fights do come first though of course, thats why regardless to my beliefs i still give Manny credit for the Cotto win.

[empiricix]

Yeah i guess your right. Although i disagree with the catchweights for titles, i dont particularly disagree witht he catchweights. Well, not Cotto's, nor Margarito's, and of course the main thing is we get a good fight. Maybe its the whole making history thing why im so concerned, who knows. The actual fights do come first though of course, thats why regardless to my beliefs i still give Manny credit for the Cotto win.

According to the latest reports, Roach and Ariza have realized that Pac really cannot weigh more than 150 lbs without losing his speed, so they have decided that, win or lose against Margarito, Pac would go back to 147 in 2011. I guess this puts an end to his catchweight fights in the future.

[SmoothMon]

Actually, that's not true. The lineal title at welterweight was vacant at the time. However, he was considered as one of the best, if not the best among the current welterweights at the time. If Mosley had won over Floyd, then it is undeniable that he and Pac would have been the next best and most logical fight to make. Mosley would have had his day with Pac eventually. But after losing to Floyd in that fashion, no one else had any interest in seeing Mosley fight Pac.

My point is that no single fighter can dictate the flow of history, not even Pac. So, it is unfair to blame him for what did or didn't happen according to our expectations. For example, if Floyd didn't retire, Oscar wouldn't have cherry-picked Pac. Pac wouldn't have dared to leapfrog over 135 and 140. Hatton would still be fighting. Cotto would still be considered as a P4P fighter. There wouldn't be any demand for Pac-Mayweather. We wouldn't be arguing about any of this. LOL

so its cool Mosley took Cottos belt from Margs and didnt get the fight with Pac? Mosley was the man to beat at that time regardless. Cotto lost bad to Margs and skimmed through Clottey. Mosley was the champ and Pac did not fight him Period..