Who would you rank higher All-Time P4P; Duran, Pacquiao, or Chavez

[Akinapepemo]

I've been here longer then you. And this polls are fun more fun then the PED threads.

Personally i don't like ATG polls, they settle nothing, considering the quality of oppostion now is generally weaker compared to boxing's heydays. but threads like these are way better than PED threads infested by so called PED experts (wiki educated ones), so i agree with you.

[BennyST]

What sucks about that is the fact there is very little footage of B. Leonard and Gans, but I would find it hard to believe they had a higher intensity in the ring then Duran.

Yeah, it's a very debatable point. Any of the three could be the best LW. Leonard has the best LW resume, Gans (if you count his brief title hiatus) has the most title defenses whereas Duran has the most dominant title reign as well as/or the most title defenses at LW (at the time) depending on how you look at Gans' reign and whether you count the hiatus for or against him.

All three had great HOF opposition at LW and all three had amazing LW reigns. Any of them could be top and nothing separates them.

[Russian Crushin]

They're DVDs. I got like 30 sets and have only watched like 5 lol. But I don't like to skip fights I want to watch them all in chronological order so I can keep with the fighters career. You collect any?

Well i started downloading and saving HD quality fights and save them on removable hard drives incase i wanna watch them. Its all the HBO and showtime fights and some FNF and other fights i find interesting

But i wouldnt really call it collecting

[Viciousz]

Oh yeah? I never heard about that. How'd he get Dq'd?

1981-03-04 116 Miguel Ruiz 4-11-1
Culiacan, Sinaloa, Mexico W KO 1
"For many years all the leading record books, including both Pugilato and The Ring Record Book, recorded the first loss of Julio Cesar Chavez as being by disqualification....
This has since been changed to a knockout victory for Chavez, based on confirmation from the local boxing commission in Culiacan that it altered the verdict the following day.
Ramon Felix, manager of Chavez, happened to be a member of the Culiacan commission at the time."
The A-Z of World Boxing by Bert Blewett (1996) at p. 341.

[Khalid X]

154 was not Duran's third weight class. He started at 118 you douche bag. Try learning something about a fighter before spouting rubbish.

He's also beaten the better fighters than any of them, fought a greater array of opposition, more HOF'ers, reigned longer, was a greater single weight champion than any.

One statistic that most don't know or think about: this alone puts him above most. Duran was beating HOFer and great 130 pound champion Ernesto Marcel and thirty years later and fifty pounds higher than where he started he was still beating the top fighters and champions of his time.

He fought legendary HOFers and top P4P fighters in nearly every weight class he was in. He was the same size as Pacquiao and was beating massive middleweight champions at nearly forty years old.

Best wins: Duran=Sugar Ray Leonard
Pacquiao=Barrera
Chavez=this one is debatable. Taylor, Rosario...maybe.

Duran takes the cake there pretty easily, especially considering it was in Leonard's peak years at his best weight and Duran's sixth weight class and had been fighting a decade longer.

As it stands right now I'd probably put Pacquiao and Chavez a very even second with Duran coming in first easily.

If you think just jumping weight classes equals greatness you are sorely mistaken. In today's weight class/title climate with pre fight day weight ins and five or so titles instead of just two, Duran would have held titles from SBW to SMW pretty easily. Understand the era, understand the fighters and most importantly, know who they fought and what their accomplishments were. Numbers are pretty meaningless when looked at properly. If having jumped weight classes meant everything then Pac is the GOAT and Oscar, and Mayweather are second and third ATG, then Hearns, Leonard, Duran, Jones, Toney etc come in after that.

Sadly for you, that's not how boxing works. Or does Ottke's 22 title defenses mean greatness?

Well my bad as I knew that but forgot. Sorry I don't boxrec much and go off the dome alot of the times when I post.

As for the rest of what you said, I already mentioned Duran was higher on the ATG even in my top 10. We are talking about p4p though and I already explained why pac is higher P4P.

Now if I said Manny was higher on the ATG list, then I can see your post, but again this is not what the TS asked.

BTW..I mentioned being elite in different weight classes as in being a Lineal champ/top fighter in each of those stops. Alot of fighters move up and look like ****, but not a lot of them go up and look dominate...even winning Lineal belts.

[JaguarMNH]

Lol. Chavez famous streak wouldn't and shouldn't of gone that long. This reminds me of Montiel-Valdez a year ago.

so this is the fight?

"Chávez made his professional debut at age 17. In his 12th fight, on March 4, 1981, Chávez faced Miguel Ruiz in Culiacán, Sinaloa. At the end of the first round, Chavez landed a blow that knocked out Ruiz. Delivered as the bell sounded, the blow was ruled a disqualification in the ring and Ruiz was declared the winner. The next day, however, after further review, the Mexican boxing commission reversed the result and proclaimed Chávez the winner."

its wikipedia, but if thats true, Chavez deserved the win.

[JaguarMNH]

1981-03-04 116 Miguel Ruiz 4-11-1
Culiacan, Sinaloa, Mexico W KO 1
"For many years all the leading record books, including both Pugilato and The Ring Record Book, recorded the first loss of Julio Cesar Chavez as being by disqualification....
This has since been changed to a knockout victory for Chavez, based on confirmation from the local boxing commission in Culiacan that it altered the verdict the following day.
Ramon Felix, manager of Chavez, happened to be a member of the Culiacan commission at the time."
The A-Z of World Boxing by Bert Blewett (1996) at p. 341.

eh, he KO'd a guy right as the bell rang. He deserves the W

[Khalid X]

Mike what the hell??

lmfao

What's the problem? I said Pac was an elite fighter in 6 different weight classes. He was the Lineal champ at 112, 126, 130, 140. To me winning a Lineal =elite in that class. Not only that when Manny was at 122 he was an elite fighter, and he is obviously an elite fighter at WW.

Again what's wrong with that statement?

[BennyST]

How would you see a Duran-Pac going?

Great fight. Very exciting but Duran just had too many things he could do too well. I think it comes down to Duran just being able to do everything better. His defense is better, his variety of offense is better, his angles are as good and he has a greater array of of boxing, whether doing it on the outside, off the backfoot, boxing, feinting, slipping and countering or breaking a fighter down on the inside with a slick inside game, pressure and smart aggression. He could hang back and counter perfectly to the body and head, box on the outside or he could get inside and break Pac down to the body and head. Pacquiao's just a bit too open and can't fight well enough on the inside to win by decision and he doesn't have enough power to hurt Duran or skill across the board to win. Would still be a good, hard fight but he just did a few too many different things that Pac wouldn't handle well.

He was also very good at fighting southpaws. He knocked out all the guys he faced at LW that were southpaws and fought on even terms with the greatest 160 southpaw ever, arguably the greatest middleweight ever and arguably the greatest southpaw ever too. Notice I say arguably simply because there are many that hold those opinions, though I am not one of them.

The main thing I see as being against Pac are his defense and his lack of an inside game. If Duran can hit you easily and get on the inside easily, both of which aren't hard to do against Pac, you've already lost. I think Pacquiao would struggle to land anything flush on Duran and would himself be countered a lot inside. If you can counter Pac and if he struggles to hit you and can't hurt you even when he did, then he is going to struggle. If that same fighter also has even better stamina and ferocity, and can beat him inside and outside and not struggle with any speed difference I don't think he (Pac) could win.

Before anyone says the speed difference would be too great, that Pac would be able to hit him easily because of it, go watch a prime Duran. Not only was he ridiculously fast himself (as fast as most) but his timing and defense was so good that he had no trouble dealing with speed of the greatest kind (greater than Pac's). If an older, smaller Duran can deal with prime Ray Leonard's speed without any bother and slip his jab and combinations, he has no trouble whatsoever with Pac's.

So, yes, I think it would either end as a close but clear UD or a late fight (12-15th) TKO for Duran with the pressure and body shots wearing Pac down and him maybe being stopped on a body shot.

[BennyST]

Well my bad as I knew that but forgot. Sorry I don't boxrec much and go off the dome alot of the times when I post.

As for the rest of what you said, I already mentioned Duran was higher on the ATG even in my top 10. We are talking about p4p though and I already explained why pac is higher P4P.

Now if I said Manny was higher on the ATG list, then I can see your post, but again this is not what the TS asked.

BTW..I mentioned being elite in different weight classes as in being a Lineal champ/top fighter in each of those stops. Alot of fighters move up and look like ****, but not a lot of them go up and look dominate...even winning Lineal belts.

P4P and ATG are the same thing. How do you differentiate them? A top ten ATG is going to be a better P4P fighter than a top thirty ATG. If you have Duran higher on your ATG list thenyou have him as the better P4P fighter. That's what the ATG list is.

Robinson is the GOAT. P4P number one. Invariably, everyone will also have Henry Armstrong, Benny Leonard, Harry Greb, Sam Langford, Ali, Roberto Duran, Willie Pep, Ray Leonard, Ezzard Charles etc etc etc up there among the top ATG's. They are all the top P4P fighters too, among others. Top ATG=top P4P.

Sorry, but I don't understand how you differentiate a top ATG and a top P4P fighter. If you have Duran as a greater fighter (ATG) than Pac, then he is the better P4P fighter. That's what it means to have him as the better ATG. Unless I'm misunderstanding something.