Has there been another fighter in history...

[HandSpeed303]

Just answer the question...

I don't play agenda games...Sorry. Plus, many have given example after example to you.

[JK1700]

People ahve given you plenty of examples, but you don't really care...Do you? YOu should really just let this topic die already. Really, you should.

Nobody has given me a real example yet. I have heard Hagler but he lost close decisions in the other guys hometown. Someone mentioned Mayorga but he never became "extroadanary". As of yet nobody has been able to mention anyone who went from being ordinary to extroadanary like Pacquiao has done.

[Roy Hobbs]

Henry Armstrong and Ezzard Charles's careers didn't start out that great.

Marvin fucking Hagler

Fritzie Zivic, Bernard Hopkins, Joey Maxim, Sandy Saddler, Marvin Hagler all had pretty ordinary early careers but achieved incredible things (especially Saddler)

Humberto Soto and Margarito had pretty ordinary beginnings. Alot of the fighters from 3rd world countries aren't offered anywhere near the opportunities that even the small name americans/brits have so they can make it in boxing. They end up losing alot of their early fights because they are 15-16 fighting grown men.

In all honesty I don't know how anyone can call Pacquiao early career ordinary when he at 21 years old won a world title with a poor trainer, poor gym, without proper nutrition.

How can you call him ordinary when he lost to Morales? Morales was still a damn fine fighter even though he wasn't in his prime.

If you can't see the difference in his style from then to now then I don't know what the hell you want people to say? Look at his use of the right hand in the first fight, almost non existant it's like a tap.

Your knowledge obviously doesn't go far back enough if you can't think of any fighter with an ordinary beginning and and extra ordinary end. Sandy Saddler is an ATG featherweight, lost his 2nd fight by KO then a decision loss not long after, he then went on a long run of wins over no notable opposition before losing a three 10 rounders to different fighters. Then he went on an extrodinary run beating top 10 P4P great Willie Pep 3 times only fighter to stop him (i think), stopped Flash Elorde, beat Teddy Davis, moved up in weight and won the Super FW title from Orlando Zulueta those Elorde and Pep are ATG's and those are just the cream of his accomplishments.

Similar stories in Fritzie Zivic and Joey Maxims careers but Fritzie Zivic had ALOT of losses before he became a champion beating Henry Armstrong for the title (who also had a bad start before becoming a legend)

Your agenda is funny.




I am amused by it.

People listed at least 10 fighters with humble beginnings from Ezzard Charles to Sandy Saddler, to modern day guys like Margarito and Mayorga and you completely ignore them.

I would never call Pac ordinary, ever.

People get in tough fights sometimes so every performance isn't always a dominating one.

People lose fights then roar back to have a compelling victory, see the annals of boxing history from Sugar Ray Robinson to Ricardo Mayorga.


Now I realize why jrose made that thread about Pac an ordinary fighter?

it seems a lot of guys have answered the question for you. just like to add some great fighters who lost early in their careers:

bob foster - great hall of fame light heavyweight champion lost by ko in his 10 fight, lost by UD in his 13 fight, then lost again by ko in his 17th fight. Ended up being one of the best lightheavyweights of all time.

veeraphol sahaprom - great bantamweight lost by tko in his 5th fight will be inducted in the hall of fame as soon as he retires.

jose napoles - great welterweight hall of famer lost in his 8th fight.

tony zale - hall of famer. lost his 10th & 11th fights.

rocky graziano - hall of famer. lost in his 10th fight.

fred apostoli - hall of famer. lost by tko in his 7th fight.

antonio cervantes - hall of famer. lost in his 2nd fight. lost by ko in his 20th fight. similar to the amount of fight that pacman fought when he lost. both lost to guys with similar records.

the list goes on. anything that is being done now by fighters have been done before. boxing has such a long storied rich history, everything has been done before. what pacman is doing is nothing new at all. nothing. its been done before. how can you seriously try to discredit his early losses when his horrible circumstance is common knowledge?

All that matters is what you do in your prime. Who you beat & what you do in your prime means more than who you lost to before your prime & after your prime.

Ask sugar ray robinson & the klitsckho brothers. ray robinson lost a lot of fights after his prime while the brothers lost to ordinary fighters in their prime.

[HandSpeed303]

Nobody has given me a real example yet. I have heard Hagler but he lost close decisions in the other guys hometown. Someone mentioned Mayorga but he never became "extroadanary". As of yet nobody has been able to mention anyone who went from being ordinary to extroadanary like Pacquiao has done.

Pac was never that...Maybe a bit flawed, but never that. Who the hell are you comparing him to anyway?

You know what, I know you don't care (nor should you), but I use to respect you as a poster...You have now just lump yourself in the lot of "*******s" and "*****s"...

You need to wake up dude.

[JK1700]

How can you call him ordinary when he lost to Morales? Morales was still a damn fine fighter even though he wasn't in his prime.

If you can't see the difference in his style from then to now then I don't know what the hell you want people to say? Look at his use of the right hand in the first fight, almost non existant it's like a tap.

Your knowledge obviously doesn't go far back enough if you can't think of any fighter with an ordinary beginning and and extra ordinary end. Sandy Saddler is an ATG featherweight, lost his 2nd fight by KO then a decision loss not long after, he then went on a long run of wins over no notable opposition before losing a three 10 rounders to different fighters. Then he went on an extrodinary run beating top 10 P4P great Willie Pep 3 times only fighter to stop him (i think), stopped Flash Elorde, beat Teddy Davis, moved up in weight and won the Super FW title from Orlando Zulueta those Elorde and Pep are ATG's and those are just the cream of his accomplishments.

Similar stories in Fritzie Zivic and Joey Maxims careers but Fritzie Zivic had ALOT of losses before he became a champion beating Henry Armstrong for the title (who also had a bad start before becoming a legend)

The "one handed" thing is just an excuse and I have exposed it many times already. You don't beat guy's like Barrera with one hand, Before the Marquez rematch Roach said "Pacquiao is new and improved, He can use both hands now" but he got beaten up even worse than the first fight. Pacquiao was never a one handed fighter, But he was never a great fighter either. Until Roach and Ariza started filling him with these secretive supplements.

When I asked for an example, I meant a fighter in like the last 10-20-30 years. I havent been alive long enough to know most of the people you mentioned.

[HandSpeed303]

The "one handed" thing is just an excuse and I have exposed it many times already. You don't beat guy's like Barrera with one hand, Before the Marquez rematch Roach said "Pacquiao is new and improved, He can use both hands now" but he got beaten up even worse than the first fight. Pacquiao was never a one handed fighter, But he was never a great fighter either. Until Roach and Ariza started filling him with these secretive supplements.

When I asked for an example, I meant a fighter in like the last 10-20-30 years. I havent been alive long enough to know most of the people you mentioned.

You just killed yourself right there....

Just admit this is just another PED topic. No one will be upset with you. Just admit it.

Let me ask you a question now smart guy: What do you think Manny has done to become so "extraodinary"? Cause you clearly think he is.

[JK1700]

Pac was never that...Maybe a bit flawed, but never that. Who the hell are you comparing him to anyway?

You know what, I know you don't care (nor should you), but I use to respect you as a poster...You have now just lump yourself in the lot of "*******s" and "*****s"...

You need to wake up dude.

If he was never ordinary then he wouldnt have got KTFO by a guy with a 11-4 record. Forget the "ordinary to extroadanary" thing and just answer this for me real quick.

How did Pacquiao go from being outboxed and beaten up by Juan Manuel Marquez and Erik Morales to walking through Miguel Cotto? Great match-making only gets you so far, Pacquiao walked through Cotto's punches like they didnt hurt him. But just a few year's prior he was getting beaten to a pulp by guys who weigh 20lbs less. How do you suspect he managed that?

[Roy Hobbs]

it seems a lot of guys have answered the question for you. just like to add some great fighters who lost early in their careers:

bob foster - great hall of fame light heavyweight champion lost by ko in his 10 fight, lost by UD in his 13 fight, then lost again by ko in his 17th fight. Ended up being one of the best lightheavyweights of all time.

veeraphol sahaprom - great bantamweight lost by tko in his 5th fight will be inducted in the hall of fame as soon as he retires.

jose napoles - great welterweight hall of famer lost in his 8th fight.

tony zale - hall of famer. lost his 10th & 11th fights.

rocky graziano - hall of famer. lost in his 10th fight.

fred apostoli - hall of famer. lost by tko in his 7th fight.

antonio cervantes - hall of famer. lost in his 2nd fight. lost by ko in his 20th fight. similar to the amount of fight that pacman fought when he lost. both lost to guys with similar records.

the list goes on. anything that is being done now by fighters have been done before. boxing has such a long storied rich history, everything has been done before. what pacman is doing is nothing new at all. nothing. its been done before. how can you seriously try to discredit his early losses when his horrible circumstance is common knowledge?

All that matters is what you do in your prime. Who you beat & what you do in your prime means more than who you lost to before your prime & after your prime.

Ask sugar ray robinson & the klitsckho brothers. ray robinson lost a lot of fights after his prime while the brothers lost to ordinary fighters in their prime.

so does the ts not want to answer this?

[HandSpeed303]

From Jrosales13:

Bro, ask JK1700 if he Alexis Arguello was on ordinary or extraordinary fighter.

[JK1700]

You just killed yourself right there....

Just admit this is just another PED topic. No one will be upset with you. Just admit it.

Let me ask you a question now smart guy: What do you think Manny has done to become so "extraodinary"? Cause you clearly think he is.

Many things....

1. Great match-making

2. Whatever Roach and Ariza are giving him. I suspect it's something pretty strong because he looks like the terminator. And we know it's not legal because if it was they would've agreed to the $40 million drug test.