Has there been another fighter in history...

[MurderDeathKill]

I know he was drained for the Singsurat loss but lots of fighters drain theirselves and come down in weight and still manage to do well. Pacquiao might have been drained but if he was then WTF was he doing at the weight? If he knew he couldnt make it then he shouldnt have took the fight. But he did so he took the fight and lost by a brutal KO. Being drained isnt an excuse for being KO'd, He took the fight. Nobody made him get in there.

Of course the Morales and Marquez fights would have made him more determined and hungry but I fail to see how you can go from being bashed around by these guys to stunning guys like Cotto with one punch. And please im tired of the "one handed" excuse, Before the Marquez rematch Roach claimed Pacquiao was "new and improved" and had developed a "Manila Ice" right hook. But nothing happened, He still couldnt beat Marquez decisively. Like I said before, I dont think you can KO guys like Barrera by punching with just one hand. Pacquiao has never exactly been "well rounded" but the one hand thing is just an excuse.

I know he has the speed, But it seems odd that he was rocking Cotto with just one or two shots as he came in. Pacquiao landed everything on Larrios and couldnt knock him out but with Cotto he was hurting him almost everytime he hit him. And this isnt even the most concerning thing, The most suspiscious thing is that he can TAKE punches from these guys. How can you go from being beaten around the ring by Marquez and Morales to walking through Cotto? I know Cotto was damaged goods but he still hit Pacquiao with alot of hard shots and couldnt stop him from coming in.

I find it very hard to believe that Pacquiao managed this naturally.

That's why I said he paid the price. He chose to go on with the fight with Singsurat and got KTFO. No excuses, he had it coming.

And against Barrera he wasn't one handed. He hit him with every punch in the book. He didn't even try that with Marquez. He killed him with lefts in round one, so after Marquez survived, he figured he'd just keep throwing them. Eventually he'd land another one and end it. It didn't happen and he let him back into the fight. I still think he did enough to win, but he blew that fight being stubborn. And Pac looked good against Morales in spots, just not enough to win. Erik could take his shots and was the stronger man. Pac lost, period.

And Pac hurt Cotto because Cotto couldn't see his punches coming. Like I said, speed kills. Either on the attack or countering, his shots were to quick for Cotto to anticipate. He didn't do anything to show in that fight he has devastating punching power. As for Pac's chin, if you're on the drug thing, that don't do anything for your chin. Either you can take a punch or you can't. Pac got stunned in previous fights with shots he himself didn't see. That's just how boxing goes.

[ippo]

I know he was drained for the Singsurat loss but lots of fighters drain theirselves and come down in weight and still manage to do well. Pacquiao might have been drained but if he was then WTF was he doing at the weight? If he knew he couldnt make it then he shouldnt have took the fight. But he did so he took the fight and lost by a brutal KO. Being drained isnt an excuse for being KO'd, He took the fight. Nobody made him get in there.

Of course the Morales and Marquez fights would have made him more determined and hungry but I fail to see how you can go from being bashed around by these guys to stunning guys like Cotto with one punch. And please im tired of the "one handed" excuse, Before the Marquez rematch Roach claimed Pacquiao was "new and improved" and had developed a "Manila Ice" right hook. But nothing happened, He still couldnt beat Marquez decisively. Like I said before, I dont think you can KO guys like Barrera by punching with just one hand. Pacquiao has never exactly been "well rounded" but the one hand thing is just an excuse.

I know he has the speed, But it seems odd that he was rocking Cotto with just one or two shots as he came in. Pacquiao landed everything on Larrios and couldnt knock him out but with Cotto he was hurting him almost everytime he hit him. And this isnt even the most concerning thing, The most suspiscious thing is that he can TAKE punches from these guys. How can you go from being beaten around the ring by Marquez and Morales to walking through Cotto? I know Cotto was damaged goods but he still hit Pacquiao with alot of hard shots and couldnt stop him from coming in.

I find it very hard to believe that Pacquiao managed this naturally.

actually he carried larrios through out the fight,you know how damn long commercials are during a pacquiao fight?

[boxasmash]

Every great fighter who ever lived.

Mayweather didn't go to a boxing gym and start KOing guys on his first day. Everyone gets better over time.

[JK1700]

That's why I said he paid the price. He chose to go on with the fight with Singsurat and got KTFO. No excuses, he had it coming.

And against Barrera he wasn't one handed. He hit him with every punch in the book. He didn't even try that with Marquez. He killed him with lefts in round one, so after Marquez survived, he figured he'd just keep throwing them. Eventually he'd land another one and end it. It didn't happen and he let him back into the fight. I still think he did enough to win, but he blew that fight being stubborn. And Pac looked good against Morales in spots, just not enough to win. Erik could take his shots and was the stronger man. Pac lost, period.

And Pac hurt Cotto because Cotto couldn't see his punches coming. Like I said, speed kills. Either on the attack or countering, his shots were to quick for Cotto to anticipate. He didn't do anything to show in that fight he has devastating punching power. As for Pac's chin, if you're on the drug thing, that don't do anything for your chin. Either you can take a punch or you can't. Pac got stunned in previous fights with shots he himself didn't see. That's just how boxing goes.

So your agreeing with me. He did start off ordinary being KO'd by Singsurat etc and now all of a sudden is extroadanary. As for the Marquez fight, That played down to boxing intelligence. Pacquiao has zero boxing intelligence which is why he wasnt able to adapt and adjust to Marquez in the way that Chris John did (for example). I had him clearly losing that fight, and it's strange to me how he can go from not being able to get to Marquez to walking through people like he has done. It's just not natural, at all.

People will say that but there are drugs that dramatically improve your work rate and endurance such as EPO for example. It doesnt mean he wont get hurt from punches but it would make him much stronger in training meaning it would improve stamina and work rate. This is the drug I believe that Pacquiao is taking because during the Morales and Marquez fights, He was getting hurt alot and struggled to recover. But now if he gets hit with one or two big shots he will just come rushing forward and keep throwing bombs.

I can't ever remember another fighter who moved up in weight and increased his work rate and power. Before Pacquiao moved up people were wondering if he was finally winding down after alll the wars he has been in, But that didnt happen. Now he looks 3x the fighter he was before. Stronger, faster, better work rate and better stamina. This is extremely unusual in boxing and I dont care what anyone says.

I won't believe he is clean until he passes the USADA tests with NO cutoff point because drug testing with a cut-off point does not prevent cheating and I dont hate Fillpino's or have anything against them. They seem like very good people just from my experiences with them. I just find Pacquiao's behavior and what he has done to be extremely suspiscious.

[victorythagr8]

First of.

Pacquaio never had an Amatuer career. You know the same type of career that floyd has lost a few times. Also did you know donaire beat jame kirkland in the amatuers.

Many pacquaio first few fights were basically his amatuer career.

And if you seen pacquaio's whole career you would know pacquaio became an predictable one handed fighters who's whole game plan was jab jab straight left, to a fighter who has great footwork, both right and left handed, with far better offense who can knock your ass out from many angles.


And also the answer for your thread can be

[JK1700]

First of.

Pacquaio never had an Amatuer career. You know the same type of career that floyd has lost a few times. Also did you know donaire beat jame kirkland in the amatuers.

Many pacquaio first few fights were basically his amatuer career.

And if you seen pacquaio's whole career you would know pacquaio became an predictable one handed fighters who's whole game plan was jab jab straight left, to a fighter who has great footwork, both right and left handed, with far better offense who can knock your ass out from many angles.

I see your point, Alot of fighters have no amatuer career and get thrown into the pro ranks very early. I don't read too much into fighters losing 4 round decision losses at the start of their career's like Mijares and B-Hop but here's my overall point...

Pacquiao went from being outboxed and beaten up by Marquez and Morales to looking like the terminator against guy's that are naturally 20-30lbs bigger than him. It's strange that Morales was hurting him alot but Cotto couldnt stop him at all. And Cotto is much stronger than Morales and is also as quick or quicker.

Iv'e never seen a fighter improve so much in such a short space of time like Pacquiao has done. And it doesnt seem natural to me. It can't be...

[JK1700]

Every great fighter who ever lived.

Mayweather didn't go to a boxing gym and start KOing guys on his first day. Everyone gets better over time.

Floyd has been great throughout his career. He won the title when he was 18-0 and just 21 years old and has been dominating ever since. Pacquiao is totally different, He has only been "great" for about 2 or 3 years. Before then, Nobody really cared...

[Guest]

Henry Armstrong and Ezzard Charles's careers didn't start out that great.

Fritzie Zivic, Bernard Hopkins, Joey Maxim, Sandy Saddler, Marvin Hagler all had pretty ordinary early careers but achieved incredible things (especially Saddler)

Humberto Soto and Margarito had pretty ordinary beginnings. Alot of the fighters from 3rd world countries aren't offered anywhere near the opportunities that even the small name americans/brits have so they can make it in boxing. They end up losing alot of their early fights because they are 15-16 fighting grown men.

In all honesty I don't know how anyone can call Pacquiao early career ordinary when he at 21 years old won a world title with a poor trainer, poor gym, without proper nutrition.

Ricardo Mayorga
lost 3 out of his first 11 fights.
captured the wba belt from andrew lewis by tko.
unified it with undefeated top p4p rated vernon forest by 3rd round tko (rip).
beat him in the rematch.
won the vacant wbc light middleweight belt by beating michele piccirillo by ud.
he beat fernando vargas as well

Floyd has been great throughout his career. He won the title when he was 18-0 and just 21 years old and has been dominating ever since. Pacquiao is totally different, He has only been "great" for about 2 or 3 years. Before then, Nobody really cared...

This has got to be a bait thread. He blew out Ledwaba in 2001 and Ledwaba was defending for the 6th time.

He was shocking people since then.

People really started caring after he handled Barrera in 2003.

Last couple of years. LMAO....

[JK1700]

This has got to be a bait thread. He blew out Ledwaba in 2001 and Ledwaba was defending for the 6th time.

He was shocking people since then.

People really started caring after he handled Barrera in 2003.

Last couple of years. LMAO....

But Ledwaba was still an unknown. He was a champion but Pacquiao was still not the extroadanary fighter that he is now. Like I said before, I give him credit for beating Barrera but he lost to Marquez and Morales. He was NOT extroadanary back then otherwise he would have beaten them convincingly. But he got beaten up badly by both of them.

But now he just walks through fighters. It's not realistic at all.

[Guest]

But Ledwaba was still an unknown. He was a champion but Pacquiao was still not the extroadanary fighter that he is now. Like I said before, I give him credit for beating Barrera but he lost to Marquez and Morales. He was NOT extroadanary back then otherwise he would have beaten them convincingly. But he got beaten up badly by both of them.

But now he just walks through fighters. It's not realistic at all.

Your agenda is funny.




I am amused by it.

People listed at least 10 fighters with humble beginnings from Ezzard Charles to Sandy Saddler, to modern day guys like Margarito and Mayorga and you completely ignore them.

I would never call Pac ordinary, ever.

People get in tough fights sometimes so every performance isn't always a dominating one.

People lose fights then roar back to have a compelling victory, see the annals of boxing history from Sugar Ray Robinson to Ricardo Mayorga.


Now I realize why jrose made that thread about Pac an ordinary fighter?