Title Defenses: W. Klitschko 13 Lennox Lewis 12

[T-97]

No, it was as legit as the WBA, WBC and IBF belts, as I've said a number of champions have been undisputed holding the WBO and two other belts, and Calzaghe's 21 defenses are counted since he had the WBO belt.

I think, although I may be wrong, what TheGreatA was pointing to more was who was "the" champion, and not so much belts. When Wlad held the WBO title, Lewis was still active and was the champion in the division, however, when Calzaghe was active as the WBO champion he was regarded as the Super middleweight champion.

[BattlingNelson]

No, it was as legit as the WBA, WBC and IBF belts, as I've said a number of champions have been undisputed holding the WBO and two other belts, and Calzaghe's 21 defenses are counted since he had the WBO belt.

Sure you can count them. Still there's a difference between infantile alphabet boys and those who has been around for decades. If you go back a little further you have the IBF. Back in the eighties, when that organisation started, it was not recognized by any trade magazines.

Of course for the purpose of this thread, it's still good debating the opponents per se, but in terms of recognition Lummox was head and shoulders above klit at the time. It's just a fact.

[Pirao]

Sure you can count them. Still there's a difference between infantile alphabet boys and those who has been around for decades. If you go back a little further you have the IBF. Back in the eighties, when that organisation started, it was not recognized by any trade magazines.

Of course for the purpose of this thread, it's still good debating the opponents per se, but in terms of recognition Lummox was head and shoulders above klit at the time. It's just a fact.

I agree, in fact if you read through my posts you'll see I have repeteadly said that Lewis was the man at the time no doubt. I'm just saying Wlad was still a titlist then, just like Haye is now.

[Pirao]

I think, although I may be wrong, what TheGreatA was pointing to more was who was "the" champion, and not so much belts. When Wlad held the WBO title, Lewis was still active and was the champion in the division, however, when Calzaghe was active as the WBO champion he was regarded as the Super middleweight champion.

I know, I'm not arguing that Wlad was the champion of the division or anything, just that the WBO made Wlad a titlist.

[TheGreatA]

I have agreed that Lennox was the man at HW, but the WBO was a legit title at the time, and that's that.

Tell me, the WBA belt Haye has means nothing too, then?

Was Damiani a legitimate world title holder when a prime Mike Tyson was wrecking opponents as the undisputed champion?

Was Herbie Hide a legitimate world title holder when Bowe, Tyson, Holyfield and Lewis were settling who the true undisputed champion was?

The WBA belt Haye has means more, because it has history, although it's a disgraced title for anyone who has followed the WBA's actions in the heavyweight division for the past couple of years. Ruiz won the vacant belt when Lewis dropped the title for not wanting to face him as the mandatory challenger.

Since then it somehow ended up on the hands of Valuev, who probably should have lost a few times while defending that title, but either way it was Haye who finally managed to win it from him. In the big picture his title is not all that credible, as the title holders who have held it recently have been subpar, but it's part of the "big four" title organizations now unlike in Lewis's time when only the WBC, WBA and IBF were seen as credible, not the WBO. No one was calling Lewis to fight for the WBO title in order to prove himself as the undisputed champion, he was already that. Both Wladimir and Vitali want the WBA title on their hands to be recognized as undisputed champion in the division, neither are as of yet as there are still 3 title holders claiming to be the champion, although Wladimir has the best case.

In Calzaghe's case, the WBO title had a long history, having been made to look credible by previous title holders such as Thomas Hearns, Chris Eubank, Steve Collins prior to Calzaghe winning it. There was also no established champion in the division.

The WBO title in the heavyweight division had no such history, having been held by fringe contenders such as Hide and Damiani.

[Pirao]

Was Damiani a legitimate world title holder when a prime Mike Tyson was wrecking opponents as the undisputed champion?

Was Herbie Hide a legitimate world title holder when Bowe, Tyson, Holyfield and Lewis were settling who the true undisputed champion was?

The WBA belt Haye has means more, because it has history, although it's a disgraced title for anyone who has followed the WBA's actions in the heavyweight division for the past couple of years. Ruiz won the vacant belt when Lewis dropped the title for not wanting to face him as the mandatory challenger.

Since then it somehow ended up on the hands of Valuev, who probably should have lost a few times while defending that title, but either way it was Haye who finally managed to win it from him. In the big picture his title is not all that credible, as the title holders who have held it recently have been subpar, but it's part of the "big four" title organizations now unlike in Lewis's time when only the WBC, WBA and IBF were seen as credible, not the WBO. No one was calling Lewis to fight for the WBO title in order to prove him as the undisputed champion, he was already that. Both Wladimir and Vitali want the WBA title on their hands to be recognized as undisputed champion in the division, neither are as of yet as there are still 3 title holders claiming to be the champion, although Wladimir has the best case.

In Calzaghe's case, the WBO title had a long history, having been made to look credible by previous title holders such as Thomas Hearns, Chris Eubank, Steve Collins prior to Calzaghe winning it. There was also no established champion in the division.

The WBO title in the heavyweight division had no such history, having been held by fringe contenders such as Hide and Damiani.

Sorry, I can't take you seriously, saying that the WBA belt Haye has now means more than the WBO belt Wlad held. Let's just agree to disagree.

[True Guru]

Holyfield was well past his best when he lost to Lewis,FFS a year after losing to Lewis he lost to ****in Ruiz

[TheGreatA]

Sorry, I can't take you seriously, saying that the WBA belt Haye has now means more than the WBO belt Wlad held. Let's just agree to disagree.

You may not be able to take it seriously but it's true. Why else would the Klitschko brothers want to fight for the WBA title so badly?

But there's another thing that motivates Klitschko: the WBA title, the missing piece of the heavyweight crown. It currently belongs to Russian giant Nicolay Valuev, who will defend the title against David Haye in November.

"We need to get them all," said Klitschko. "When that happens, I will think about my future."

Did anyone call the WBO title a missing piece of crown for Lewis? I don't think so.

After all he had beaten plenty of fighters who had held the "prestigious" WBO title, Tommy Morrison, Henry Akinwande and Ray Mercer. Michael Bentt was another "top class" heavyweight that I forgot held the WBO title.

[Calilloyd]

Frank Bruno------Derrick Jefferson
Phil Jackson-------Hasim Rahman
Akinwande -------Ray Austin
Andre Golota -----Lamon Breswster
Shanno Briggs---Tony Thompson
Zeljko Mavrovic---Calvin Brock
Holyfield----------Ruslan Chagaev
Francois Botha----Francois Botha
Michael Grant ----Jameel McCline
David Tua --------Eddie Chambers
Mike Tyson-------Sultan Ibragimov
Vitali Klitschko ----Ray Mercer
--------------------- Charles Shufford




Frank Bruno and Derrick Jefferson are NOT compatible. That's just ******. Anderw Golota at that stage was not compatible to Lamon Brewster. David Tua was not compatible to Eddie Chambers.Your're being ridiculous. Again



Aside from Vitali, all the others matched up vs eachother are not all that incompatable.




Give me a break man. Lennox definitely has an edge at this point, no doubt, but they're not far off.



Jefferson, Chagaev, Ibragimov, Mercer, Brewster, Rahman, Thompson are all good punchers.



Byrd did and i'm sure Eddie Chambers would be able to. Ibragimov, Chagaev would imo

Thompson, Brewster, Mccline would have a good shot.



Keep in mind that it took Lennox 2 tries before he won Gold, he lost in '84 and Cuba & Soviets weren't even involved in those games.

All fair points, i favour Lennox too in a prime h2h matchup but it's close. I just think its ridiculous when people act like a comparison is unreasonable.



Yup, if politics doesn't get in the way and he fights and beats

Povetkin
Haye
Arreola
maybe
Solis
Peter
Adamek
Valuev
and a good newcomer like Pulev or Helenius at the end of his career he would have an extremely solid resume.

Frank Bruno and Derrick Jefferson are NOT compatible. That's just ******. Andrew Golota at that stage was not compatible to Lamon Brewster. David Tua was not compatible to Eddie Chambers. Lewis was only a teenager when he didn't win the gold in 84. He won a bronze. The more you post the more I can understand why you think Ali didn't win a gold medal. Your're being ridiculous. Again.

[Pirao]

You may not be able to take it seriously but it's true. Why else would the Klitschko brothers want to fight for the WBA title so badly?

Because they want to have all the major belts between them. Lewis didn't need the WBO because he had already unified the other 3 major belts, which already makes you undisputed.

After all he had beaten plenty of fighters who had held the "prestigious" WBO title, Tommy Morrison, Henry Akinwande and Ray Mercer. Michael Bentt was another "top class" heavyweight that I forgot held the WBO title.

Yeah, I forget that the IBF, WBC and WBA trinkets have always been held by great fighters, they've never had any papaer champions, right?