unfair advantage: steroids or coming in over the agreed limit against a smaller man?

[FLY TY]

Do you give Floyd credit for that win?

yea, i give him credit....he completely outboxed the guy for 12 rounds....where in that fight can you point out 2 lbs. being the difference?

a win over manny and shane will be even better, obviously.

You're not the man I thought you were.

i seriously forgot....there's so much **** floating around this thread.

re-ask the question, and i'll answer.....you probably forgot too...

[arraamis]

Floyd fans hail Floyd as a hero for trying to clean up the sport of boxing by imposing his own regulations on a man he suspects of being dirty because of his recent performances. This is boxing and in a sport that is life threatening, their is no place for anything that could cause an unfair advantage. Steroids have been around the sport of boxing and its effectiveness can be measured by the fighters who have been caught using them; Vargas, Toney, etc.

Weight advantage is also a dangerous advantage specially if you are fighting a man that does not even belong in the weight class he has already agreed on fighting his opponent in. Add on an opponent not coming in heavier than an already smaller opponent, it is just a recipe for an unfair disaster. We have seen the effects of what weight can do in the 2nd Castillo vs. Corrales fight.

Manny Pacquiao has never been proven to be a dirty fighter nor use PEDs. For the sake of argument though, what is a greater advantage, a dirtier tactic, coming in with a weight advantage or coming in roided?

EVERYBODY!!!!!! EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!

Is over the weight limit come fight night. Very few, if any, stay the same weight they are at weigh-in.

I'm shocked people are still trying to use this BS against Floyd. You must not watch the unofficial weights come fight night. When guys like Cotto, Pacman, Clottey, Castillio, Mosley ALL put on anywhere from 10 - to almost twenty pounds by the time they step into the ring.

And you're going to harp on TWO POUNDS!!!!!!!!!!

Where is your outcry when Clottey\Cotto\Margarito etc... Are fighting as middleweights in a WW event, everytime they step into the ring?????????

And you're harping on two pounds!!!! UN****INBELIEVABLE.

[2501]

yea, i give him credit....he completely outboxed the guy for 12 rounds....where in that fight can you point out 2 lbs. being the difference?

a win over manny and shane will be even better, obviously.

Ok, with that and the fact that you posted that Marquez AGREED to the fight knowing the weight difference, do you give Pacquiao credit for beating DLH and Cotto after all, it was DLH who requested the fight at 147 and Cotto who AGREED and PROCLAIMED 145 would have no affect on him?

[tesla_power]

Peds. Because it is illegal while weight is not. Plus a superior skillset could overcome it. Some of the ATG's could get in there with 30lbs difference and still managed to win decisively. I don't know any drug induced fighter being whooped. But if an example would be provided that would great.

The only thing is that Pbf actually did circumvent the original agreed weight to his advantage while Pac is just being accused without real proof (scientific, witnesses, etc).

I think the better question would be. What do you think is worse?
1. Pbf coming over 2lbs overweight against a smaller opponent
2. Pac refusing to a 14day cutoff

I would definitely chose number 1 but I'm very disappointed at number 2. I definitely want to see that fight.

[AFighter4U]

Tell that to Cotto.

Totally unrelated. At least Cotto KEPT HIS WORD AND CAME IN AT 145.

Not only were the odds stacked for Floyd, with the height, reach, weight (since Marquez had to go up in weight) and AGE. He had to cheat on the weight as well.

Oh, and its not only 2 pounds. The weight disparity was so great that Floyd didn't even allow himself to be weight at fight night. I wouldn't be surprised if they fought with a 15 to 20 lbs difference.

[El Jesus]

Peds. Because it is illegal while weight is not. Plus a superior skillset could overcome it. Some of the ATG's could get in there with 30lbs difference and still managed to win decisively. I don't know any drug induced fighter being whooped. But if an example would be provided that would great.

The only thing is that Pbf actually did circumvent the original agreed weight to his advantage while Pac is just being accused without real proof (scientific, witnesses, etc).

I think the better question would be. What do you think is worse?
1. Pbf coming over 2lbs overweight against a smaller opponent
2. Pac refusing to a 14day cutoff

I would definitely chose number 1 but I'm very disappointed at number 2. I definitely want to see that fight.

Here is the thing though, with number 1, JMM was paid for PBFs misgiving, he didint have to take the money, so like i told the TS, people here seem to bemore upset about it than marquez was, what do you want me to say? If he cared that much, he wouldnt have taken the money.

Pac refusing the 14 day cutoff robbed himself of 40million and upwards, i dont even know what to say about that, at least with floyds treachery, we still saw a fight.

[tesla_power]

Here is the thing though, with number 1, JMM was paid for PBFs misgiving, he didint have to take the money, so like i told the TS, people here seem to bemore upset about it than marquez was, what do you want me to say? If he cared that much, he wouldnt have taken the money.

Pac refusing the 14 day cutoff robbed himself of 40million and upwards, i dont even know what to say about that, at least with floyds treachery, we still saw a fight.

For the 1st point though, IMO, Marquez pride prevented him from refusing to fight. A cancellation on cinco de mayo (forgive if the spelling is wrong) would be catastrophic to him, don't you think?

No, I'm still sticking with number one. This was just negotiations and everyone is trying to get to terms. I mean this only got special airtime because of the fighters involved. It is a normal scenario in negotiations and both sides can walk away if they chose to.

The Pbf-Jmm scenario is that it is already agreed but Jmm was suckered into believing he will be fighting a 144lbs fighter.

[screwhead1]

it was marquez's choice...no one elses...i'm sure he appreciate the concern for his well-being...but i'm not going to blame the car that hits me if i decide to do cartwheels out on the interstate at 6:00 in the evening...

[FLY TY]

Ok, with that and the fact that you posted that Marquez AGREED to the fight knowing the weight difference, do you give Pacquiao credit for beating DLH and Cotto after all, it was DLH who requested the fight at 147 and Cotto who AGREED and PROCLAIMED 145 would have no affect on him?

cotto first....

i give pacquiao credit for that win, b/c i don't think cotto would've won that fight, whether it was at 145 OR 147.....


the dlh thing is a bit tricky tho. oscar may have asked for the fight to be held at 147, for obvious reasons....he was a JMW fighting a LW.

the part where it gets sticky, is not the fact oscar made a mistake by draining himself, but the fact that there was a clause in the contract that prevented oscar from re-hydrating from the weigh-in till fight night.

so not only did oscar have to make 147, he had to stay at 147(or under) come fight night too.

now there was a clause in that contract too, that stated oscar would have to pay manny 1 MILLION/lb. he came in over 147. rather than pay the money, oscar chose to embarrass himself.


so, on that hand, i give manny credit for the win and oscar being a greedy dumbass.....but at the same time, i can't ignore the fact that oscar hadn't fought at that weight in like 10 years, and not being able to re-hydrate himself, i'm sure didn't help.

[2501]

cotto first....

i give pacquiao credit for that win, b/c i don't think cotto would've won that fight, whether it was at 145 OR 147.....


the dlh thing is a bit tricky tho. oscar may have asked for the fight to be held at 147, for obvious reasons....he was a JMW fighting a LW.

the part where it gets sticky, is not the fact oscar made a mistake by draining himself, but the fact that there was a clause in the contract that prevented oscar from re-hydrating from the weigh-in till fight night.

so not only did oscar have to make 147, he had to stay at 147(or under) come fight night too.

now there was a clause in that contract too, that stated oscar would have to pay manny 1 MILLION/lb. he came in over 147. rather than pay the money, oscar chose to embarrass himself.


so, on that hand, i give manny credit for the win and oscar being a greedy dumbass.....but at the same time, i can't ignore the fact that oscar hadn't fought at that weight in like 10 years, and not being able to re-hydrate himself, i'm sure didn't help.

But like you said, he agreed to it, therefore he made his own bed.

Marquez agreed to fighting at 144 which is way the **** above 135. But you said that because he agreed to those terms, its not Floyd's fault.

What I'm trying to get at is, you have to treat other fighters the same way you treat Floyd if you're going to say you're an objectionable fan.