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Dude don't even mention Gayweather as having the right to be the goat of this era. Gayweather is probably the most skilled fighter of this era but with the peoples he ducked, the dude is no GOAT. Like the RA dude said, you need to be in fights where the fans can't guess who's going to win. That's what make a GOAT. Manny Pacquiao cannot be judge right now but I can guarantee you that in 15-30yrs, he will be mention side by side with Leonard, Duran, Robinson, and some of the so true greats.Last edited by civicvx; 12-12-2009, 11:55 AM.Comment
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Nice try. Mayweather is already up there with Robbinson and Ali. His skills fool no one. He has faced the best his entire career unlike many haters claim based on his turn down of Margarito. He never LOST A SINGLE FIGHT and dominated EVERY SINGLE opponent he was in a ring with. 40-0 and all championship fights, no catchweights. Another mith was that Marquez was a catchweight. IT WAS ALWAYS A WELTERWEIGHT FIGHT, not a catchweight.Comment
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omg! when does this end?? maybe u should investigate other great boxers who are long dead, find out if their opponents are in their prime or not....its like accusing Pac of steroids while the other past greats are not...jezz give the man his due he deservesThe only problem with this question is that while he has beaten a lot of good and great fighters, he has never beaten an incredible fighter. A top forty/thirty/twenty/ten fighter in their prime.
Guys that are the very best have either stayed so long at the top and beaten a long series of HOF'ers or either beaten a smaller amount of truly great, top fighters.
What is Pac's best win? Barrera? He would probably rank somewhere from 75 to 100 maybe. The guys like Oscar, Hatton, Morales and Marquez were his other best wins. Hatton doesn't even bare mention among any ATG's, even among the best ever at 140. Oscar is an ATG, but beating him at the stage Pac did is the same as Green beating Jones at the stage he did. It literally means nothing.
Now, Marquez is a different story. Although the majority of observers felt Marquez took the win, the judges gave it to the money fighter, that being Pac. This is his second greatest win for me. Marquez though probably doesn't even reach the top 100 ATG's. I wish he did but he doesn't. Very close though.
Next is Morales. Great win but again, he was just not what you can call good at that point. He wasn't the Morales that made everyone in awe of him. It wasn't the same guy that put Zaragoza out with a body shot. He had lost his last two fights apart from beating Pac and he went on to lost his next two after it also. He was done.
Cotto was a good win but again, he doesn't rate anywhere, either in the top 140/147 or ATG lists. He had also been beaten brutally only two fights before in a shocking TKO loss and had a very lucky win in another fight where he got a bit of a hammering. The fact that Pac beat him at 145 is great. An amazing achievement. But when it comes to ranking him an ATG, these type of victories seriously don't cut it.
Someone doesn't become the greatest of all time with these wins and a 46-3-3 record with two KO losses and some shady decisions wins. I don't say this to put him down as I think he is very high on the ATG list, but anyone putting him either in the top ten or near it yet is just straight up ****ing daft.
The minimum he would have to do is beat another guy at his level to get to the top twenty/ten, which would be Mayweather. Having a series of very good wins without a truly great one of another great of his level doesn't work. You either have to be fighting guys way bigger than you, and let's face it, even though Pac is fighting at his seventh title weight class he is not much smaller than anyone he has fought at all. He has been the same size as everyone apart from Oscar.
Everything he has done has been amazing and he is great but he still isn't close to being or becoming the GOAT. He really would have to beat Mayweather, and then another very good fighter that is genuinely bigger than him. I'm talking a lot taller, greater reach, more solid etc etc. All the genuine greats were beating guys that were usually much younger, much bigger, much stronger while they were often old and small. This is what showed you their amazing talent and true greatness. Beating a bunch of guys who are great or good but who are also the same size, or a good style match for you and don't pose any truly significant risks in terms something you don't have, ie. power, speed, height, reach, age (youth), etc etc, doesn't show enough.
Like I said, this isn't a dig at him. It's only a dig at people calling him the GOAT. He is an ATG. A true ATG and one of the best ever to do it. Of that there is no doubt whatsoever. But GOAT or even top ten? No, I don't think so.
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The Goat is a mythical term that can be argued over constantly,so no one will be the decisive victor for that term!!But from a boxing fans perspective,Pacman is the greatest fighter to have laced them up in this era of boxing,in my opinion!!But I still don't think he would have faired so well against a welterweight SRL & company like he did Cotto!!Regardless he has been great for the present!!Comment
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He's not the GOAT yet. Give him time...who knows? Alot can still happen.Comment
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Great post, is sad that some ******* didn't read it or else they would see you giving Manny credit.The only problem with this question is that while he has beaten a lot of good and great fighters, he has never beaten an incredible fighter. A top forty/thirty/twenty/ten fighter in their prime.
Guys that are the very best have either stayed so long at the top and beaten a long series of HOF'ers or either beaten a smaller amount of truly great, top fighters.
What is Pac's best win? Barrera? He would probably rank somewhere from 75 to 100 maybe. The guys like Oscar, Hatton, Morales and Marquez were his other best wins. Hatton doesn't even bare mention among any ATG's, even among the best ever at 140. Oscar is an ATG, but beating him at the stage Pac did is the same as Green beating Jones at the stage he did. It literally means nothing.
Now, Marquez is a different story. Although the majority of observers felt Marquez took the win, the judges gave it to the money fighter, that being Pac. This is his second greatest win for me. Marquez though probably doesn't even reach the top 100 ATG's. I wish he did but he doesn't. Very close though.
Next is Morales. Great win but again, he was just not what you can call good at that point. He wasn't the Morales that made everyone in awe of him. It wasn't the same guy that put Zaragoza out with a body shot. He had lost his last two fights apart from beating Pac and he went on to lost his next two after it also. He was done.
Cotto was a good win but again, he doesn't rate anywhere, either in the top 140/147 or ATG lists. He had also been beaten brutally only two fights before in a shocking TKO loss and had a very lucky win in another fight where he got a bit of a hammering. The fact that Pac beat him at 145 is great. An amazing achievement. But when it comes to ranking him an ATG, these type of victories seriously don't cut it.
Someone doesn't become the greatest of all time with these wins and a 46-3-3 record with two KO losses and some shady decisions wins. I don't say this to put him down as I think he is very high on the ATG list, but anyone putting him either in the top ten or near it yet is just straight up ****ing daft.
The minimum he would have to do is beat another guy at his level to get to the top twenty/ten, which would be Mayweather. Having a series of very good wins without a truly great one of another great of his level doesn't work. You either have to be fighting guys way bigger than you, and let's face it, even though Pac is fighting at his seventh title weight class he is not much smaller than anyone he has fought at all. He has been the same size as everyone apart from Oscar.
Everything he has done has been amazing and he is great but he still isn't close to being or becoming the GOAT. He really would have to beat Mayweather, and then another very good fighter that is genuinely bigger than him. I'm talking a lot taller, greater reach, more solid etc etc. All the genuine greats were beating guys that were usually much younger, much bigger, much stronger while they were often old and small. This is what showed you their amazing talent and true greatness. Beating a bunch of guys who are great or good but who are also the same size, or a good style match for you and don't pose any truly significant risks in terms something you don't have, ie. power, speed, height, reach, age (youth), etc etc, doesn't show enough.
Like I said, this isn't a dig at him. It's only a dig at people calling him the GOAT. He is an ATG. A true ATG and one of the best ever to do it. Of that there is no doubt whatsoever. But GOAT or even top ten? No, I don't think so.
Now no one is claiming Pac is the GOAT, maybe some *******s that only seen his last few fights (still shocked some actually think Manny can beat SRR at 147), Floyd can only dream to be considered the GOAT, but we all know he is full of it, Manny and Floyd are ATG and the winner of their fight will have some leverage to be considered the Greatest of our era, but like another poster said, these spoiled fighters would not be able to pull off the **** Robinson did in his time.Comment
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