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nah, this era/generation is not the one wholl decide if pacquiao is GOAT. we can discuss it and argue about it the whole day, but at the end of the day his greatness will be decided years and years from now, not by us but by those who will review the history. look at pacquiaos reel, look at the time span between those reel, imagine the story one can make of it? and his origin up to whatever his run as pound4pound takes him, imagine what an impression it can create to those who have not lived his time. you can always pick writeups from any blog you like post it here but it doesnt mean anything, its just like an opinion of any posters here.Comment
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If pac beats mayweather, then mosley, then yuri foreman and finally williams/martinez at 154 then I would have him in the top 5 GOAT.
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For me to put Pac top 5 ATG. He would have to beat Floyd, Clottey, Berto, Collazo, Shane @147, Martinez, Dzinziruk, Angulo, Cintron, Spinks P-Will, Foreman @ 154 for me to consider him top 5.Comment
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The only problem with this question is that while he has beaten a lot of good and great fighters, he has never beaten an incredible fighter. A top forty/thirty/twenty/ten fighter in their prime.
Guys that are the very best have either stayed so long at the top and beaten a long series of HOF'ers or either beaten a smaller amount of truly great, top fighters.
What is Pac's best win? Barrera? He would probably rank somewhere from 75 to 100 maybe. The guys like Oscar, Hatton, Morales and Marquez were his other best wins. Hatton doesn't even bare mention among any ATG's, even among the best ever at 140. Oscar is an ATG, but beating him at the stage Pac did is the same as Green beating Jones at the stage he did. It literally means nothing.
Now, Marquez is a different story. Although the majority of observers felt Marquez took the win, the judges gave it to the money fighter, that being Pac. This is his second greatest win for me. Marquez though probably doesn't even reach the top 100 ATG's. I wish he did but he doesn't. Very close though.
Next is Morales. Great win but again, he was just not what you can call good at that point. He wasn't the Morales that made everyone in awe of him. It wasn't the same guy that put Zaragoza out with a body shot. He had lost his last two fights apart from beating Pac and he went on to lost his next two after it also. He was done.
Cotto was a good win but again, he doesn't rate anywhere, either in the top 140/147 or ATG lists. He had also been beaten brutally only two fights before in a shocking TKO loss and had a very lucky win in another fight where he got a bit of a hammering. The fact that Pac beat him at 145 is great. An amazing achievement. But when it comes to ranking him an ATG, these type of victories seriously don't cut it.
Someone doesn't become the greatest of all time with these wins and a 46-3-3 record with two KO losses and some shady decisions wins. I don't say this to put him down as I think he is very high on the ATG list, but anyone putting him either in the top ten or near it yet is just straight up ****ing daft.
The minimum he would have to do is beat another guy at his level to get to the top twenty/ten, which would be Mayweather. Having a series of very good wins without a truly great one of another great of his level doesn't work. You either have to be fighting guys way bigger than you, and let's face it, even though Pac is fighting at his seventh title weight class he is not much smaller than anyone he has fought at all. He has been the same size as everyone apart from Oscar.
Everything he has done has been amazing and he is great but he still isn't close to being or becoming the GOAT. He really would have to beat Mayweather, and then another very good fighter that is genuinely bigger than him. I'm talking a lot taller, greater reach, more solid etc etc. All the genuine greats were beating guys that were usually much younger, much bigger, much stronger while they were often old and small. This is what showed you their amazing talent and true greatness. Beating a bunch of guys who are great or good but who are also the same size, or a good style match for you and don't pose any truly significant risks in terms something you don't have, ie. power, speed, height, reach, age (youth), etc etc, doesn't show enough.
Like I said, this isn't a dig at him. It's only a dig at people calling him the GOAT. He is an ATG. A true ATG and one of the best ever to do it. Of that there is no doubt whatsoever. But GOAT or even top ten? No, I don't think so.
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hoya- pacs tenth weight class, coming in this fight, 95% of pacs fight was fought at sfw and below. 80% at superbantam and belowThe only problem with this question is that while he has beaten a lot of good and great fighters, he has never beaten an incredible fighter. A top forty/thirty/twenty/ten fighter in their prime.
Guys that are the very best have either stayed so long at the top and beaten a long series of HOF'ers or either beaten a smaller amount of truly great, top fighters.
What is Pac's best win? Barrera? He would probably rank somewhere from 75 to 100 maybe. The guys like Oscar, Hatton, Morales and Marquez were his other best wins. Hatton doesn't even bare mention among any ATG's, even among the best ever at 140. Oscar is an ATG, but beating him at the stage Pac did is the same as Green beating Jones at the stage he did. It literally means nothing.
Now, Marquez is a different story. Although the majority of observers felt Marquez took the win, the judges gave it to the money fighter, that being Pac. This is his second greatest win for me. Marquez though probably doesn't even reach the top 100 ATG's. I wish he did but he doesn't. Very close though.
Next is Morales. Great win but again, he was just not what you can call good at that point. He wasn't the Morales that made everyone in awe of him. It wasn't the same guy that put Zaragoza out with a body shot. He had lost his last two fights apart from beating Pac and he went on to lost his next two after it also. He was done.
Cotto was a good win but again, he doesn't rate anywhere, either in the top 140/147 or ATG lists. He had also been beaten brutally only two fights before in a shocking TKO loss and had a very lucky win in another fight where he got a bit of a hammering. The fact that Pac beat him at 145 is great. An amazing achievement. But when it comes to ranking him an ATG, these type of victories seriously don't cut it.
Someone doesn't become the greatest of all time with these wins and a 46-3-3 record with two KO losses and some shady decisions wins. I don't say this to put him down as I think he is very high on the ATG list, but anyone putting him either in the top ten or near it yet is just straight up ****ing daft.
The minimum he would have to do is beat another guy at his level to get to the top twenty/ten, which would be Mayweather. Having a series of very good wins without a truly great one of another great of his level doesn't work. You either have to be fighting guys way bigger than you, and let's face it, even though Pac is fighting at his seventh title weight class he is not much smaller than anyone he has fought at all. He has been the same size as everyone apart from Oscar.
Everything he has done has been amazing and he is great but he still isn't close to being or becoming the GOAT. He really would have to beat Mayweather, and then another very good fighter that is genuinely bigger than him. I'm talking a lot taller, greater reach, more solid etc etc. All the genuine greats were beating guys that were usually much younger, much bigger, much stronger while they were often old and small. This is what showed you their amazing talent and true greatness. Beating a bunch of guys who are great or good but who are also the same size, or a good style match for you and don't pose any truly significant risks in terms something you don't have, ie. power, speed, height, reach, age (youth), etc etc, doesn't show enough.
Like I said, this isn't a dig at him. It's only a dig at people calling him the GOAT. He is an ATG. A true ATG and one of the best ever to do it. Of that there is no doubt whatsoever. But GOAT or even top ten? No, I don't think so.
hatton- pacs 9th weight class. lineal title
cotto- pacs 10th weight class, a true welterweight champ. probably the biggest and strongest among the 147 guys
four lineal titles, 7 titles all in a span of ten divisions
barrera, hofer, 2x
morales, hofer 2x
jmm, hofer, 1-0-1
that doesnt count for something?
maybe durans win over barkley at 160, which was durans 9th weight class, doesnt count for anything either? perhaps. it was an SD
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