Roy Jones Jr. The ducks he made at supermiddleweight.

[IMDAZED]

You said right there controversial losses. Johnson was as tough and durable as he was when he fought Jones.

I also said some weren't. Right there.

Jones best win was prolly Toney, we know how that story goes. Tito was more dangerous to a 30+ year old Hopkins than a weight drain Toney. Tito just annihilated William Joppy. Toney was in no better condition than DLH who fought Pacquaio if the truth be told.

These kind of statements can be easily turned around. Toney was more dangerous than a blown up welter Tito. Toney had looked masterful KOing Prince Charles Williams four months earlier. But carry on.

Pavlik is still the undisputed Champ and his wins over Taylor legitimize him as as an excellent win, certainly just as credible as a past prime Reggie J.

I think Reggie's win over Steve Collins is better than Pavlik's over Taylor. And let's be honest, the only reason he's still undisputed is because he hasn't fought anyone. Well...he did fight Rubio and Lockett.

Wink did not look fat to me. Ive heard Jones say that Wink walks about at 175. How old was Hopkins when he fought Wink? precisely.

Hopkins' age doesn't make Winky better. People age differently. And Winky aged far quicker than Hops. Winky looked fat to me. How many times has he fought over 160? What is his track record there? Precisely.

Sturm fight just showed that DLH was overlooking Sturm and did not train properly, did he look that soft when he fought Hopkins? no, did he hold his own in the fight? yes. DLH clearly struggled with Sturm because he did not take him seriously.

You are making excuses for Hopkins but downing Jones. Interesting. Oscar lost to Sturm. End of story. He didn't belong in the ring with Hopkins anyway.

John David Jackson? Keith Holmes? William Joppy? And you're complaining about Reggie Johnson?


Well they are just solid wins like the Reggie fight.

If you can prove how those wins are better than Reggie Johnson, I'm all ears.

[Dynamite Kid]

Winky was not robbed in that fight. Vargas won by a point or 2.

[IMDAZED]

I had Vargas winning seven rounds to five. Thought he came on strong in the last two rounds. That was a strange fight though. Vargas - compared to fights before and after - looked like he had forgot his steroids during camp for Winky.

[Lead Cenobite]

How about you make one for Kessler, Bat.

I think the server might explode if anyone tried that.

[IMDAZED]

Okay to be fair to Reggie he was injured but he wasn't amazing against Will Taylor either.

They don't make posters like you anymore.

[Dynamite Kid]

I also said some weren't. Right there.


These kind of statements can be easily turned around. Toney was more dangerous than a blown up welter Tito. Toney had looked masterful KOing Prince Charles Williams four months earlier. But carry on.



I think Reggie's win over Steve Collins is better than Pavlik's over Taylor. And let's be honest, the only reason he's still undisputed is because he hasn't fought anyone. Well...he did fight Rubio and Lockett.


Hopkins' age doesn't make Winky better. People age differently. And Winky aged far quicker than Hops. Winky looked fat to me. How many times has he fought over 160? What is his track record there? Precisely.



You are making excuses for Hopkins but downing Jones. Interesting. Oscar lost to Sturm. End of story. He didn't belong in the ring with Hopkins anyway.


If you can prove how those wins are better than Reggie Johnson, I'm all ears.

They cant be turned around when Tito just annihilated a full blown Middleweight, anyone who knows anything about Tito knows he should of been fighting at 154/160 anyway. Tito went through Joppy like wet paper and was able to beat Vargas & Reid despite them being apparently bigger and more skilled, what does that tell you.


Reggie's win over Collins might be better but Roy did not fight that!! Reggie Johnson, just like he never fought the Toney who beat Barkley.

Thats true but you are gonna try and tell me that a 35 year old who had not been in many wars has less wear and tear on him than a 40+ year old who is obviously going to lose his reflexes as he gets to the age. Jones himself has said Wink walks around at 175.


No you are making excuses for why DLH was not a legit challenge, when the reality is, DLH clearly overlooked Sturm and fought a competitive fight with Hopkins and looked in good shape, which was not the a case when he fought the lesser Sturm.


Most of those wins are better than Reggie Roy did not fight Reggie who beat Collins, Jones fought the Reggie that Tarver absolutely dominated 3/4 fight later.

[IMDAZED]

They cant be turned around when Tito just annihilated a full blown Middleweight, anyone who knows anything about Tito knows he should of been fighting at 154/160 anyway. Tito went through Joppy like wet paper and was able to beat Vargas & Reid despite them being apparently bigger and more skilled, what does that tell you.

I actually don't believe Tito is a blown up welter. Never did. Just said it to flip your weight excuse argument. As I said, I believe it is Hopkins' best win. But it is not better than Jones' win over Toney. That's my take. Toney has always been weight drained. But four months earlier, he looked sparkling against Williams. I don't buy that weight excuse just like I don't buy the little guy excuse for Tito.

Reggie's win over Collins might be better but Roy did not fight that!! Reggie Johnson, just like he never fought the Toney who beat Barkley.

Fair enough but this is one hell of a double standard. Who was Glen Johnson when Hopkins beat him?

Thats true but you are gonna try and tell me that a 35 year old who had not been in many wars has less wear and tear on him than a 40+ year old who is obviously going to lose his reflexes as he gets to the age. Jones himself has said Wink walks around at 175.

Walking around means nothing. Duran walked around at 200, at some points. Should he have fought at heavy? Wright was past it and out of his weight class. And had love handles. Hell nah, man.

No you are making excuses for why DLH was not a legit challenge, when the reality is, DLH clearly overlooked Sturm and fought a competitive fight with Hopkins and looked in good shape, which was not the a case when he fought the lesser Sturm.

DLH was not a legit challenge to Hopkins. Unless you think Shane Mosley was a legit challenger as well since the two had fought on near even terms a year before. That's just not a big win for Hopkins. Look, I've been told by many people that I'm a Hopkins nuthugger. But one think those people will tell you is that I never tried to use that farce of a fight against Oscar as some sort of a good win. Come on, now.

Most of those wins are better than Reggie Roy did not fight Reggie who beat Collins, Jones fought the Reggie that Tarver absolutely dominated 3/4 fight later.

He didn't fight the Reggie who beat Collins? How bad was the version of John David Jackson that Hopkins beat? And who did William Joppy and Keith Holmes beat ever?

[BattlingNelson]

How about you make one for Kessler, Bat.

I think the server might explode if anyone tried that.

Boxasmash already did:

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237830

[Dynamite Kid]

I actually don't believe Tito is a blown up welter. Never did. As I said, I believe it is Hopkins' best win. But it is not better than Jones' win over Toney. That's my take. Toney has always been weight drained. But four months earlier, he looked sparkling against Williams. I don't buy that weight excuse just like I don't buy the little guy excuse for Tito.



Fair enough but this is one hell of a double standard. Who was Glen Johnson when Hopkins beat him?



Walking around means nothing. Duran walked around at 200, at some points. Should he have fought at heavy? Wright was past it and out of his weight class. And had love handles. Hell nah, man.



DLH was not a legit challenge to Hopkins. Unless you think Shane Mosley was a legit performance since the two had fought on near even terms a year before. That's just not a big win for Hopkins. Look, I've been told by many people that I'm a Hopkins nuthugger. But one think those people will tell you is that I never tried to use that farce of a fight against Oscar as some sort of a good win. Come on, now.



He didn't fight the Reggie who beat Collins? How bad was the version of John David Jackson that Hopkins beat? And who did William Joppy and Keith Holmes beat ever?

Toney win is not!! better than Hopkins win over Tito because Nard was 34( if i remember right) at the time. Tito just spanked Joppy at MW and had already gone through Reid, Vargas. The only fights i can recall Toney being badly drained in was the Dave Tiberi fight.

Who was Hopkins when Jones beat him? certainly not the fighter he came to be but people still use that to prop up his resume.


That is a silly analogy. Duran was none to overindulge. Hopkins was still the much older man to.

Dude that DLH win is a decent win. Im not trying to make its some spectacular win but its a credible win because DLH beat Vargas, Castellejo at 154 and should of been award the fight against Mosley, he also performed adequately until the stoppage. It is what is, a bigger man beating a smaller man because he is the bigger man but its still a credible win.

Some might argue that Hagler beating a past prime LW (Duran) should not count for much but its a fairly credible win none the less.


He didn't fight the Reggie who beat Collins? How bad was the version of John David Jackson that Hopkins beat? And who did William Joppy and Keith Holmes beat


Joppy, Holmes, J D Jackson were certainly better wins than Brannon, Hall, Kelly, Frazier

[IMDAZED]

Toney win is not!! better than Hopkins win over Tito because Nard was 34( if i remember right) at the time. Tito just spanked Joppy at MW and had already gone through Reid, Vargas. The only fights i can recall Toney being badly drained in was the Dave Tiberi fight.

Well then that's where we disagree. I think Jones' win over a prime Toney was better than Hopkins' over a prime Tito.

Who was Hopkins when Jones beat him? certainly not the fighter he came to be but people still use that to prop up his resume.

If Hopkins won, his middleweight reign begins right then, no?

That is a silly analogy. Duran was none to overindulge. Hopkins was still the much older man to.

Most fighters walk around way, way above their fighting weight. But it's not their fighting weight. Simple. Also, you keep bringing up Hopkins' age - shouldn't we then give Jones bonus points for beating a young, prime version? (Using your logic, of course).

Dud that DLH win is a decent win. Im not trying to make its some spectacular win but its a credible win because DLH beat Vargas, Castellejo at 154 and should of been award the fight against Mosley, he also performed adequately until the stoppage. It is what is, a bigger man beating a smaller man because he is the bigger man but its still a credible win.

It's a win. Nothing more, nothing less.

He didn't fight the Reggie who beat Collins? How bad was the version of John David Jackson that Hopkins beat? And who did William Joppy and Keith Holmes beat[/B] Joppy, Holmes, J D Jackson was certainly better than Brannon, Hall, Kelly, Frazier

Interesting. We've now switched this part of the debate over from Reggie Johnson vs. Joppy/Jackson/Holmes, to a host of others. Yes, they may have been better wins but not better than Reggie Johnson.