Roy Jones Jr. The ducks he made at supermiddleweight.

[Dynamite Kid]

Well then that's where we disagree. I think Jones' win over a prime Toney was better than Hopkins' over a prime Tito.



If Hopkins won, his middleweight reign begins right then, no?



Most fighters walk around way, way above their fighting weight. But it's not their fighting weight. Simple. Also, you keep bringing up Hopkins' age - shouldn't we then give Jones bonus points for beating a young, prime version? (Using your logic, of course).



It's a win. Nothing more, nothing less.




Interesting. We've now switched this part of the debate over from Reggie Johnson vs. Joppy/Jackson/Holmes, to a host of others. Yes, they may have been better wins but not better than Reggie Johnson.

IMDAZED we are never gonna agree on this so we might aswell stop right here. I think your a good poster but we have a difference of opinion here.

Respect though bro

[IMDAZED]

IMDAZED we are never gonna agree on this so we might aswell stop right here. I think your a good poster but we have a difference of opinion here.

Respect though bro

Mucho props, my man. If this we're in person we'd definitely be still going at it over beers

[THE REED]

IMDAZED we are never gonna agree on this so we might aswell stop right here. I think your a good poster but we have a difference of opinion here.

Respect though bro

Mucho props, my man. If this we're in person we'd definitely be still going at it over beers

I enjoyed it

[Smash]

Can we let this go? Calzaghe was barely a contender at 168 when Jones left the division. And there are plenty of quotes from Joe which show he had no intentions of fighting Jones. Let it go.

Plenty of quotes?? I've only seen a quote where calzaghe states that he wants to get paid well in order to go and fight jones, nothing else along those lines. If the quotes are there i want to see them.

On the other hand i can find plenty of examples over the years of calzaghe telling people he wants the big fights most of all. Remember, jones was at LHW for all of calzaghes career at 168 plus calzaghe seemed to be reluctant to move out of wales unless the offer was amazing, like he says himself in that quote. Calzaghe wanted jones but he wanted him in wales. By the end of his career that had changed and jones was much less of a threat.

As for collins, anybody who knows anything about his career knows the fight he craved the most was jones, i dont care what a commentator says. I believe what collins says not some gossip on hbo.

[Dynamite Kid]

Mucho props, my man. If this we're in person we'd definitely be still going at it over beers

I enjoyed it

Deffo. You cant let anything go when you have had a beer.


I respect Roy. I think its out of order the way folk are jumping on his case after his loss. What has changed about Roy's resume from before the Green fight till now?

[THE REED]

Deffo. You cant let anything go when you have had a beer.


I respect Roy. I think its out of order the way folk are jumping on his case after his loss. What has changed about Roy's resume from before the Green fight till now?

I agree.... But my debating spirit has been shattered recently, so I just spectated... good debate.

But I will be back... oh... I will be back.

[street bully]

Roy was the truth, no need in dissing a man when he is down.

[Allucard]

I did a little research on Roy Jones Jr. and the opposition he fought as a SMW.

Jones was in essense fighting in the 168 lb division from 1993 until 1996.

Keys:

RED = Eventually fought them or fought them already
BLUE = Fought them in that year.

The year end rankings of 1992 looked like this:

1: Michael Nunn
2: Iran Barkley
3: Chris Eubank
4: Victor Cordoba
5: Nigel Benn
6: Tim Littles
7: Darrin Van Horn
8: Tony Thornton
9: Frankie Liles
10: Frank Nicotra

He fought Thornton in 1995.

1993:

1: James Toney
2: Michael Nunn
3: Chris Eubank
4: Nigel Benn
5: Tim Littles
6: Darrin Van Horn
7: Frankie Liles
8: Tony Thornton
9: Antoine Byrd
10: Vincenzo Nardiello


1994: Jones enters the list at no. 1 after beating Toney.

1: Roy Jones Jr.
2: Nigel Benn
3: Chris Eubank
4: Frankie Liles
5: Vinny Pazienza
6: Tim Littles
7: Michael Nunn
8: Ray Close
9: Graciano Rocchigiani
10: Antoine Byrd


1995:

1: Roy Jones Jr.
2: Nigel Benn
3: Steve Collins
4: Frankie Liles
5: Tim Littles
6: Vinny Pazienza
7: Bryant Brannon
8: Henry Wharton
9: Michael Nunn
10: Ray Close


1996:

1: Roy Jones Jr.
2: Frankie Liles
3: Steve Collins
4: Vinny Pazienza
5: Robin Reid
6: Henry Wharton
7: Michael Nunn
8: Vincenzo Nardiello
9: Joseph Kiwanuka
10: Thulani Malinga

At the end of 1996 Jones had moved up.

So Jones work after 4 years at 168 lb consist of an excellent win over Toney and not much else:

Toney
Thornton
Pazienza (LOL)
Byrd
Brannon

Jones never fought a top 3 opponent after Toney. He had 6 fights at 168 after beating him. Of those fights he beat an unranked Thornton, a suspected juiced lightweight in Pazienza, a past it Byrd, a never was in Sosa, a young non-threat in Lucas and a veteran of 16 fights in Brannon.


So the deserving fighters Jones didn't fight (or ducked as it's called on NSB) is these guys:

Nunn
Benn
Eubank
Collins
Barkley
Cordoba
Littles
Van Horn
Liles
Nardiello
Close
Rocchigianni
Nicotra


Let's face it. A Nunn or a Benn or a Eubank or a Liles or even a Collins would have been real nice.

(I hope I didn't miss anyone )

Pretty good. Thanks... I remember Jones being so dominant in his prime and wasn't really chasing those guys and those guys weren't exactly calling him out either. In boxing, great fighters usually only fight their biggest fights when they are past it or turning so big they endanger the untouchable ones (ATGs)

[Dynamite Kid]

I agree.... But my debating spirit has been shattered recently, so I just spectated... good debate.

But I will be back... oh... I will be back.

Who motivates the motivator

[El_Cholo]

Lets not kick dirt in his face now that he is down. Why couldn't Calzaghe beat Jones like Green did?

hmm because Calzaghe had been plauged with hand problems since the mid 90s