This "American" style is going to ruin boxing.

[Glamour Puss]

Ward was fighting very effectively on the inside. It was Kessler who was throwing no punches once he got up close. Ward was peppering his face with uppercuts and breaking the clinch the catch him with straights. If Kessler was better schooled then maybe it would have been more competetive and maybe more appealing to guys with the same view as you.

Outline to me at what point fighting on the back foot becomes "running"; did you think Ward was running against Kessler?

Ward didn't do as much running as the others usually do. He did more holding, fouling and hitting.

Kessler was flat as ever last night no doubt, but that doesnt change the fact that Ward got away w/ murder.

How bout the way he kept his arm extended w/ out throwing punches all night. That shouldve been penalized also. You can't just measure a guy all night like that w/ your arm.

The way he rushed in w/ his head over and over and not getting even warned was also sickening.

[skullduggery]

You know that feeling of satisfaction you had 2 weeks ago after Packy/Cotto?

The one where you felt totally rewarded for tuning in and buying the fight (or streamed it illegally)...The one that provided you with endless fodder for the boards and water cooler talk?

Ok.

Me too.

Now contrast that with that feeling of total hollow, anticlimactic, frustration you felt after watching Floyd/Oscar or Dirrell/Froch, or Ward/Kessler.

Fights that were ruined by the awful, spoiling, selfish style known as the new American style.

Boxing is about hitting and not getting hit to a point. These guys will do anything not to get hit, including hold, forearms to the neck, and blatant running.

Boxing can be beautiful when done right. SRR and Ali were 2 of the GOAT boxers but they fought in entertaining fights. They were smart warriors, but they didn't gip the audience.

This new breed is all about them. They don't care about the audience at all and if it means holding on for dear life when they should be employing skill and counterpunching, then they'll do it.

All I hear is how "skilled" this new breed is, but if they were truly skilled as you say, they wouldn't need to run, and hold so much. There are other, better options for a skilled fighter than that.

Like punching at the right time.

I knew last nights fight was gonna look like that so I wasn't all that excited about it from jump street, but I wasn't expecting all the fouls and such a ****ty ref.

Though I should know better considering it was in CA.

Anyway, ref's gotta start deducting points early in the fight for excessive holding, running and fouls.

The new American style depends on these factors to be successful. If you take this away from them, they'll be forced to fight and be exposed for the cowards they are.

We don't need "fighters" like this in the sport. If they are that adamant about not getting hit, choose another profession.

The best example of this is the Berto/Collazo fight where Berto was doing the exact thing I'm talking about. In that fight the ref warned him early and penalized him in the second round for excessive holding.

If the ref hadn't done that I guarantee we wouldn't have seen the fight we did. Instead it wouldve been an ugly hit, run and hold fest that wouldve probably favored Berto by a wider gap, since thats his style.

are u not a fan of williams style? pavlik? ortiz? kirkland???? do not generalize... while that style may be the most boring, it proves to be the most effective... can't fault a fighter for doing what it takes to win... but that style, is not the AMERICAN style

[Glamour Puss]

Ward vs Kessler was very exciting. Kessler tried to get breaks, but Ward would have none of it. Cotto on the other hand ran, and you praise Cotto?

Street bully, you're insane for comparing last night to Hopkins/Pavlik.

Hopkins didn't resort to any of that bull**** w/ Pavlik. He just outsmarted him, outpunched him and manned him and just destroyed him.

He never lunged in w/ his head or clinched excessively.

Apples and oranges.

[Benny Leonard]

Ward did well except for the head-butts. He outboxed Kessler bad. When Ward unloaded, especially behind the jab, Kessler looked confused and battered.

Dirrell however ******. He should have been warned then thrown out if continued.

Ali held. Vitali holds. Wlad holds. Hatton holds. Floyd holds. Lewis held. Holyfield held and head butted but still was one of the best warriors. Gene Tunney held. Jack Johnson held way to much but did if for both tactic and pleasure and it was a tactic of the time.

Without going down the entire list throughout history, Clinching has been a part of boxing. Not a big fan, especially too much holding but...the refs have to enforce the standards.



Pac is one of the few fighters that just says: Let's ****in fight. Gatti was like that which is why I loved him.

I would like to see a lot less holding, gloves to be 6-8oz, no big rings, and so on. But what I want and what is are two different things.


Going back to Kessler since that is part of all this: Teach him how to get away from fighting so by the book because even if we take out the head-butts and sometimes clinch which has been way over-blown considering others that have held a lot more...Kessler just hasn't shown the ability to deal with slick fighters.

[Dynamite Kid]

Street bully, you're insane for comparing last night to Hopkins/Pavlik.

Hopkins didn't resort to any of that bull**** w/ Pavlik. He just outsmarted him, outpunched him and manned him and just destroyed him.

He never lunged in w/ his head or clinched excessively.

Apples and oranges.

**** off!!

The last 3 rounds Hopkins was hanging on constantly, Estevez warned him how many times, so much so that i felt he was going to lose a point.

You just proved that you have an agenda.

[GG Marquez]

i agree

more pac, cotto, mosley, valero in boxing will definately attract more casual fans...... this slick fighters are making casual fans be less interested in boxing....

this is also ther reason why tyson, ali are the most popular boxer, because theyre exciting to watch.

OK, fair enough.

Let's pick two American fighters so that it is apples-to-apples. Shane Mosley and Floyd Mayweather.

Yoou just said that Shane's style would attract more casual fans. Then why is Floyd so much more popular among casual fans than Shane Mosley?

Ali was exciting to watch? Which fights are you referring to? The fights where Frazier brought the heat and made Ali fight his fights? Which others? Don't be fooled by Ali
s FOTY. His fighte were big events, but were mostly not 'entertaining". Rumble in the Jungle was FOTY and that was a miserable fight to watch.

[S.G.]

How bout the way he kept his arm extended w/ out throwing punches all night. That shouldve been penalized also. You can't just measure a guy all night like that w/ your arm.

It wasn't exactly "all night" - he did it about 3 times, and so briefly each time the referee never even got a chance to call him on it. Also he wasn't pushing Kessler face which is usually when the referee steps in with extended arms.

The way he rushed in w/ his head over and over and not getting even warned was also sickening.

The headbutts were a result of Ward's gameplan to stay on the inside and smother Kessler. He got overzealous a couple times and rushed in too fast and unfortunately Kessler paid the price for his lack of upper body movement and poor footwork.

Ward did what he had to do to win, and it's not as if he fought like Sakio Bika or something - it was clever stuff.

[Benny Leonard]

OK, fair enough.

Let's pick two American fighters so that it is apples-to-apples. Shane Mosley and Floyd Mayweather.

Yoou just said that Shane's style would attract more casual fans. Then why is Floyd so much more popular among casual fans than Shane Mosley?

Ali was exciting to watch? Which fights are you referring to? The fights where Frazier brought the heat and made Ali fight his fights? Which others? Don't be fooled by Ali
s FOTY. His fighte were big events, but were mostly not 'entertaining". Rumble in the Jungle was FOTY and that was a miserable fight to watch.

Ali was at his best prior to the layoff. He started to hold more as a tactic after his exile because he didn't have the legs/stamina like he did at his best...and didn't have the power to hold off such strong fighters...so I don't hold it to much against him even though I'm not a fan of it. Ali was a Master at understanding Boxing and what you can take if given...just like Jack Johnson and Gene Tunney...just like Lewis and Wlad today.

[street bully]

**** off!!

The last 3 rounds Hopkins was hanging on constantly, Estevez warned him how many times, so much so that i felt he was going to lose a point.

You just proved that you have an agenda.

Actually Benjie deducted a point with only one warning. Hopkins barley held at all, it was Pavlik.

[GG Marquez]

Ali held. Vitali holds. Wlad holds. Hatton holds. Floyd holds. Lewis held. Holyfield held and head butted but still was one of the best warriors. Gene Tunney held. Jack Johnson held way to much but did if for both tactic and pleasure and it was a tactic of the time.

.

Absolutely true. And if Cotto had held Margo, Miguel would have won that fight.

You do what the referee allows you to do. You adjust. The same way a great hitter adjusts to the strike zone.