This "American" style is going to ruin boxing.

[Allucard]

ward is on a whole diffrent level then floyd and direlll hes just a dirty fighter
americans are the best

Ward was not dirty! He headbutted Kessler accidentally twice, that was it, he clinched in close but EVERYONE does that. Hatton made a career out of it and all these suckers were then ok with it!!!
They are trying to make a big deal out of it because God forbid Kessler being a little overrated, that would mean.... oh noes!

[Allucard]

Ward through over two times as many power punches as Kessler returned. The only thing that wasn't entertaining about that fight was simply the one sidedness of it. If Kessler was anywhere near Ward's class, the fight would have been much better. Kessler may as well have been Miranda.

Ditto, that's what im trying to say

[Benny Leonard]

Why do you feel angry at Hatton's holding, while finding Ward's holding to be acceptable? I didn't like the holding by either.

At least Hatton didn't deliberately headbutt. That last one from Ward was so obviously deliberate, even Al Bernstein said so!

Ward's was less than Hatton's and Ward showed me he could actually beat Kessler without while Hatton showed he was getting out-boxed by Tszyu when he didn't do it.

This is true, Hatton didn't head-butt: He just threw punches to the kidneys and behind the head that probably resulted in Tszyu's concussion. Good job looking out to clear that up.

The Head-butt's from Ward weren't mostly deliberate as far as using it as a weapon...not like Holyfield who always did it...but it was to get inside to clinch without taking a shot to the chin which is why the head was down and the hard part was up. Was there one, yeah, probably to get in. But yes, he should have been warned to stop it and if he wanted to clinch, find a better way of doing it.
That's what they teach though: Try to bury the head against the chest although when you aren't looking and the fighter is coming in, it will end up with a clash.



Here is a bit of Hatton:

O, wait, was that a deliberate head-butt in there at the end 4:40?

Start: 3:54






Fighters fight dirty: Old School fighters were big on getting away with dirty tactics: One of my favorites, Dempsey was a bit dirty; Marciano was big on it; Holyfield was big on it; Tyson was in his prime but not nearly as what he would later become; even Floyd knows some tricks; Hopkins was incredibly dirty in his prime; etc.

[rambov]

I think if anything, it made people more appreciative of boxing. Lots of my friends are MMA fans and they now have much more respect for people who know how to NOT get hit.

[#1Assassin]

TS is entitled to his opinion but i strongly disagree.

the pacquiao-cotto fight wasnt that great imo and i wasnt looking forward to it at all. the kessler-ward fight i looked forward to much more and i wasnt dissapointed in how it turned out at all.

i dont think you can complain about floyd-oscar eighter unless your a moron. floyd gets heat when he fights smaller guys, but when he fights bigger guys he gets heat for not trading. is he gon fight a man much bigger than himself toe to toe when he has a massive speed, skill and boxing IQ advantage? hell no. ppl were just dissapointed he didnt lose.

as for ward, he wasnt that dirty. the holding was evenly divided. only when kessler got desperate he tried to punch in close but in the early parts he was the one holding on to ward. the headbutts were accidental, and even if they werent.. who gives a ****? its a fight.. a fight that was dominated by andre ward headbutts or not.

[2120]

You know that feeling of satisfaction you had 2 weeks ago after Packy/Cotto?

The one where you felt totally rewarded for tuning in and buying the fight (or streamed it illegally)...The one that provided you with endless fodder for the boards and water cooler talk?

Ok.

Me too.

Now contrast that with that feeling of total hollow, anticlimactic, frustration you felt after watching Floyd/Oscar or Dirrell/Froch, or Ward/Kessler.

Fights that were ruined by the awful, spoiling, selfish style known as the new American style.

Boxing is about hitting and not getting hit to a point. These guys will do anything not to get hit, including hold, forearms to the neck, and blatant running.

Boxing can be beautiful when done right. SRR and Ali were 2 of the GOAT boxers but they fought in entertaining fights. They were smart warriors, but they didn't gip the audience.

This new breed is all about them. They don't care about the audience at all and if it means holding on for dear life when they should be employing skill and counterpunching, then they'll do it.

All I hear is how "skilled" this new breed is, but if they were truly skilled as you say, they wouldn't need to run, and hold so much. There are other, better options for a skilled fighter than that.

Like punching at the right time.

I knew last nights fight was gonna look like that so I wasn't all that excited about it from jump street, but I wasn't expecting all the fouls and such a ****ty ref.

Though I should know better considering it was in CA.

Anyway, ref's gotta start deducting points early in the fight for excessive holding, running and fouls.

The new American style depends on these factors to be successful. If you take this away from them, they'll be forced to fight and be exposed for the cowards they are.

We don't need "fighters" like this in the sport. If they are that adamant about not getting hit, choose another profession.

The best example of this is the Berto/Collazo fight where Berto was doing the exact thing I'm talking about. In that fight the ref warned him early and penalized him in the second round for excessive holding.

If the ref hadn't done that I guarantee we wouldn't have seen the fight we did. Instead it wouldve been an ugly hit, run and hold fest that wouldve probably favored Berto by a wider gap, since thats his style.

Yeah I tend to agree

I love boxing and applaud the skills that both dirrell and ward have but the excessive holding is illegal

its not as extreme as tito hitting vargas in the nuts in the 4 round to stop his momentum but holding is an illegal tactic that does the same thing

dirrell and ward have great movement but as the fight wears on there opponents close the gap a little more often and there response to there opponent getting closer is stopping their potential success by using an illegal tactic called holding.

I have no problem with boxers moving and running around in circles. Boxing is called the sweet science for a reason but using illegal tactics to avoid getting hit is bull****.

floyd and sweet pea are great boxers with movement and none of those two guys ever hold. what floyd does do that is illegal is that forearm/elbow push on the inside.

but seriously what are the downfalls to warning and deducting points for holding and the forearm/elbow push

more action? more inside and outside exchanges? more competitive fights?
pretty sure thats what all boxing and casual fans want to see when they watch the sport of boxing.


ward put on a clinic yesterday and i still think he would have won but it would have been a even more compelling fight if he was not allowed to hold.

because it would have forced ward to throw more punches to prevent kessler from getting close

[krazyn8tive]

ward-kessler was exciting

It was a lot of things but NOT exciting. It was a one sided ass whoopin with a lot of dirty **** happening. The judges were fair in the scoring but the ref was a homer. It was ugly. I deleted it off of my dvr right after the fight. It ****** that bad

[patpatpts]

Why do you feel angry at Hatton's holding, while finding Ward's holding to be acceptable? I didn't like the holding by either.

At least Hatton didn't deliberately headbutt. That last one from Ward was so obviously deliberate, even Al Bernstein said so!

no but hatton deliberately hit him in the nutz though

[Benny Leonard]

no but hatton deliberately hit him in the nutz though

This is going to be the reply from Carnivore my friend:

"Why do you always discredit white fighters?...What do you have against White Europeans? Is it because you are ***ish?"


Also note, that if you mention Tszyu was Russian/White, Carnivore will tell you that Kostya Tszyu is not all white and that he has Korean blood in him so that is why you rooted for him even if you were a fan of his longer than Hatton.

[Glamour Puss]

It was a lot of things but NOT exciting. It was a one sided ass whoopin with a lot of dirty **** happening. The judges were fair in the scoring but the ref was a homer. It was ugly. I deleted it off of my dvr right after the fight. It ****** that bad

LOL!! I did the exact same thing.

TS is entitled to his opinion but i strongly disagree.

the pacquiao-cotto fight wasnt that great imo and i wasnt looking forward to it at all. the kessler-ward fight i looked forward to much more and i wasnt dissapointed in how it turned out at all.

i dont think you can complain about floyd-oscar eighter unless your a moron. floyd gets heat when he fights smaller guys, but when he fights bigger guys he gets heat for not trading. is he gon fight a man much bigger than himself toe to toe when he has a massive speed, skill and boxing IQ advantage? hell no. ppl were just dissapointed he didnt lose.

as for ward, he wasnt that dirty. the holding was evenly divided. only when kessler got desperate he tried to punch in close but in the early parts he was the one holding on to ward. the headbutts were accidental, and even if they werent.. who gives a ****? its a fight.. a fight that was dominated by andre ward headbutts or not.

Waaaaa???? Really? That fight was pretty damn exciting to the rest of us.

Yeah I tend to agree

I love boxing and applaud the skills that both dirrell and ward have but the excessive holding is illegal

its not as extreme as tito hitting vargas in the nuts in the 4 round to stop his momentum but holding is an illegal tactic that does the same thing

dirrell and ward have great movement but as the fight wears on there opponents close the gap a little more often and there response to there opponent getting closer is stopping their potential success by using an illegal tactic called holding.

I have no problem with boxers moving and running around in circles. Boxing is called the sweet science for a reason but using illegal tactics to avoid getting hit is bull****.

floyd and sweet pea are great boxers with movement and none of those two guys ever hold. what floyd does do that is illegal is that forearm/elbow push on the inside.

but seriously what are the downfalls to warning and deducting points for holding and the forearm/elbow push

more action? more inside and outside exchanges? more competitive fights?
pretty sure thats what all boxing and casual fans want to see when they watch the sport of boxing.


ward put on a clinic yesterday and i still think he would have won but it would have been a even more compelling fight if he was not allowed to hold.

because it would have forced ward to throw more punches to prevent kessler from getting close

Great post.