When floyd says "one demensional" i know exactly what he means, come read

[Dynamite Kid]

Does anyone know what getting off shoulder is ?

From an orthodox stance i think the best way to beat Mayweather would be to jab your way in and go straight down stairs, get off the shoulder and throw left hooks, double right hands and put your hands in your pocket at times when he rolls the shoulder, that way you will confuse him.

You have to get off the shoulder though because Mayweather will duck under your hook, if you are off the shoulder there is more chance of him bending into it. I also think his style is open to the upjab.

However the mechanics obviously change when fighting a lefty.

[Alibata]

goodpost, green K.

i think floyd will tko or ko pac from accumulation.

Pac chin can withstand some good punishment. but that doesnt mean his brain can withstand the punishment of consistent, clean, hard, accurate blows connecting above 50%

especially if floyd opens up and throws punches like he did against Gatti

You can't give green when your red. Pac and roach will figure floyd out.

[Jambo boy]

one other thing is that mayweather does alot of clinching on the inside, hes going to do his best to tie up pac, hell do everything he can to not let him get off.

It won't be so easy to tie up against a southpaw.

[El Jesus]

Does anyone know what getting off shoulder is ?

From an orthodox stance i think the best way to beat Mayweather would be to jab your way in and go straight down stairs, get off the shoulder and throw left hooks, double right hands and put your hands in your pocket at times when he rolls the shoulder, that way you will confuse him.

You have to get off the shoulder though because Mayweather will duck under your hook, if you are off the shoulder there is more chance of him bending into it. I also think his style is open to the upjab.

However the mechanics obviously change when fighting a lefty.

I know EXACTLY what you are talking about, but one thing i have to admit is that i just dont see pac having the patience to implement what you are talking about. Part of beating mayweather is adjusting to his adjustment. I just dont see pac being able to do that. If pac wins its because mayweather succumbed to whatever pacs gameplan was.

[Dynamite Kid]

Manny caught up to him because cotto slowed down, at the point where cotto got on his bike, he was in survival mode and simply couldnt keep it up the whole fight. Its not like manny simply cut the ring off and imposed his size and unloaded, hell no. Manny WAITED until he slowed up and cotto still thinking he could hurt him, continued to exchanged THATS when he caught up to him.

Remember when manny threw his arms in the air in frustration when cotto circled and just threw his jab and didint engage? thats what im saying is alarming.

Yeah i think it was around the 6th he really started to look tired. It kind of worked out well for Manny though in one sense, Roach told him he (Cotto) could not fight going backwards, now i dont necessarily agree with that but regardless of that it had the desired effect, it made!! Cotto even more tired because Manny was forcing him to move over, if had stopped and held his feet Manny would of hammered him some more.

I know Manny was tight in round 1 but im not sure if Cotto getting away from his game plan or Manny getting into his rhythm is what changed that fight, it might be both but i dont know which had the bigger impact.

[Dynamite Kid]

I know EXACTLY what you are talking about, but one thing i have to admit is that i just dont see pac having the patience to implement what you are talking about. Part of beating mayweather is adjusting to his adjustment. I just dont see pac being able to do that. If pac wins its because mayweather succumbed to whatever pacs gameplan was.

Oh yeah, no waaay! do i see Pac implementing that strategy.

I think being that he is left handed, quick, unorthodox and has great stamina is why he will most likely do it a different way, he will most likely try to break the door down.

[solo20]

This isnt a disrespect to pac, Pacs legacy is currently ahead of floyds. If you know me, im not a hater, i have respected and followed pac longer than alot of you likely reading this thread


. But when he says one demensional, i know what he means. Pacs diversity and angles are almost entirely offensive, and most of them come from when an opponent is stationary and attempting to trade. Alot of what he does works when an opponent is standing in front of him. For example, cotto was on the move, and jabbing, pac did absolutely nothing. All of the angles, diversity and his fantastic right hand are only effective if you are standing front of him either waiting for it or in the middle of an exchange. You take that away, and you can see floyds point.

Think about this. A guy like floyd who can take you inside, outside, move and throws every punch in the book, is extremely diverse. People keep talking about the shoulder roll like its his only defense, this guy gives you a different look practically every round. Also, people talk about pacs "improved defense", im not really seeing that. What i see is a grade A chin and a mountain of punch resistence. What i also see is cotto, moved, jabbed, even when he had nothing, still snapped pacs head back, technicians like floyd see that stuff a mile away. Cotto also connected with looping arm punches that had no buisness connecting. Mayweather can also take the fight inside and he needs virtually no room to punch, ive yet to see pac in a phonebooth.

Another thing that has to be noted. When pac moves his head to the right, the left hand over the top comes in every single time, cotto actually took a step back and threw a straight and stopped him in his tracks.

Floyd is not going to do what cotto did which is stand in front of him and attempt to impose his will. If pac wants to have any chance against floyd, they have to prepare him for floyd to be on the move. Frankly this is a very difficult fight for pac. Ive already seen floyd adjust midfight countless times. If you are looking to the judah fight for success, dont, if thats the case, ill look to the morales fight. Both floyd and pac are improved from that time, however its pacs chin and his outstanding power that have carried him this far. also his quickness.

Remember this also, floyd has a tendency to make fighters very wary of his accuracy which completely drops their punch output. Its not going to be a wipeout on either side.

great points but the *******s are going to think you are attack Pac skills

[LEFTYGUNZZ]

great points but the *******s are going to think you are attack Pac skills

They were great points I provided some green K. I love to debate the other side with someone who can post intellegently....lefty

[BOX-A-LOT]

This isnt a disrespect to pac, Pacs legacy is currently ahead of floyds. If you know me, im not a hater, i have respected and followed pac longer than alot of you likely reading this thread


. But when he says one demensional, i know what he means. Pacs diversity and angles are almost entirely offensive, and most of them come from when an opponent is stationary and attempting to trade. Alot of what he does works when an opponent is standing in front of him. For example, cotto was on the move, and jabbing, pac did absolutely nothing. All of the angles, diversity and his fantastic right hand are only effective if you are standing front of him either waiting for it or in the middle of an exchange. You take that away, and you can see floyds point.

Think about this. A guy like floyd who can take you inside, outside, move and throws every punch in the book, is extremely diverse. People keep talking about the shoulder roll like its his only defense, this guy gives you a different look practically every round. Also, people talk about pacs "improved defense", im not really seeing that. What i see is a grade A chin and a mountain of punch resistence. What i also see is cotto, moved, jabbed, even when he had nothing, still snapped pacs head back, technicians like floyd see that stuff a mile away. Cotto also connected with looping arm punches that had no buisness connecting. Mayweather can also take the fight inside and he needs virtually no room to punch, ive yet to see pac in a phonebooth.

Another thing that has to be noted. When pac moves his head to the right, the left hand over the top comes in every single time, cotto actually took a step back and threw a straight and stopped him in his tracks.

Floyd is not going to do what cotto did which is stand in front of him and attempt to impose his will. If pac wants to have any chance against floyd, they have to prepare him for floyd to be on the move. Frankly this is a very difficult fight for pac. Ive already seen floyd adjust midfight countless times. If you are looking to the judah fight for success, dont, if thats the case, ill look to the morales fight. Both floyd and pac are improved from that time, however its pacs chin and his outstanding power that have carried him this far. also his quickness.

Remember this also, floyd has a tendency to make fighters very wary of his accuracy which completely drops their punch output. Its not going to be a wipeout on either side.

All the crap you just pointed out goes out the window when Floyd gets tagged, seriously.

Check this out man, Hatton closed the distance on Floyd Jr from rounds 1 through 9, the problem with Hatton, was he didn't know what to do once he got to the desired spot, instead of punching, he just kept leanin' on Floyd Jr. against the ropes and clinched.

If Hatton easily closed the gap on Floyd, PAC will do the same and his awkward punching angles will slip through. Zab did it as well, but, the problem with Zab is, he doesn't try to work someone over.

To this day, I still think that if Zab had the kind of toughness that Hatton and PAC has, that he could've very well pulled off the upset on his buddy Floyd.

[El Jesus]

All the crap you just pointed out goes out the window when Floyd gets tagged, seriously.

Check this out man, Hatton closed the distance on Floyd Jr from rounds 1 through 9, the problem with Hatton, was he didn't know what to do once he got to the desired spot, instead of punching, he just kept leanin' on Floyd Jr. against the ropes and clinched.

If Hatton easily closed the gap on Floyd, PAC will do the same and his awkward punching angles will slip through. Zab did it as well, but, the problem with Zab is, he doesn't try to work someone over.

To this day, I still think that if Zab had the kind of toughness that Hatton and PAC has, that he could've very well pulled off the upset on his buddy Floyd.

You act like mayweather is just going to fold up and give in if he gets hit. read the thread, there are several intelligent detractors who KNOW mayweather beyond the zab judah/welterweight era that most of you saw him at. I think at this point, most of the best responses have been laid out. The Zab fight is as relevant as the morales fight, people improve.