Canelo is not an all time great fighter

[DeeMoney]

These true all time greats have one thing in common

They beat the best guys at their best in their prime

Canelo has holes

I get what you are writing, but boxing being the business it is doesn't always allow for that- sometimes guys just don't fight other bests at their best. Which leads us to the question, are we evaluating on in ring ability and execution or are we evaluating on that PLUS ability to secure and make fights. I prefer the former, but in doing so recognize that it requires some deeper evaluation than just resume (because once again boxing is not an organized sport that allows for easy cross era or weight class resume comparisons).

When I see Canelo, both resume and the fights themselves, I see someone who is probably in that all time 60-90 range as far as ranking (which is pretty amazing considering how old boxing is and how many fighters there have been). If that makes an ATG or not so be it. And this is from someone who has pointed out on many occasions that virtually all of his big wins came against fighters past their prime.

[IronDanHamza]

You said that

Where? Quote it.

[IronDanHamza]

Hearns was 26 years, 40 wins 1 loss to Srl where he was outboxing Srl up until the 14th rd stoppage

He was in his prime still

Canelo has holes

Woahhhh woah woah, easy there buddy.

Tommy Hearns was knocked out by Ray Leonard. You said anyone that's been knocked out isn't in their prime.

Stay consistent now. Like you do when you agree with Teddy Atlas that Pacquaio ducked Floyd in 2009.

[SouthpawRight]

I get what you are writing, but boxing being the business it is doesn't always allow for that- sometimes guys just don't fight other bests at their best. Which leads us to the question, are we evaluating on in ring ability and execution or are we evaluating on that PLUS ability to secure and make fights. I prefer the former, but in doing so recognize that it requires some deeper evaluation than just resume (because once again boxing is not an organized sport that allows for easy cross era or weight class resume comparisons).

When I see Canelo, both resume and the fights themselves, I see someone who is probably in that all time 60-90 range as far as ranking (which is pretty amazing considering how old boxing is and how many fighters there have been). If that makes an ATG or not so be it. And this is from someone who has pointed out on many occasions that virtually all of his big wins came against fighters past their prime.

I have Saul as lower tier all time great

His former mentor Oscar is greater

[daggum]

Woahhhh woah woah, easy there buddy.

Tommy Hearns was knocked out by Ray Leonard. You said anyone that's been knocked out isn't in their prime.

Stay consistent now. Like you do when you agree with Teddy Atlas that Pacquaio ducked Floyd in 2009.

pac hasnt been in his prime since he was 18 years old when he was ko'd. floyd literally fought him 30 years after his prime!

[DeeMoney]

I have Saul as lower tier all time great

His former mentor Oscar is greater

I agree, I have Oscar ahead of Canelo. But I'm still wondering where the line is for ATG? Top 10, top 50, top 100? Where is the line between someone being an All Time Great and just being 'great', and how close is the lowest ATG to the highest 'just great'.

It just seems like somewhat throw out a cool sounding designation that has an arbitrary line for earning that designation, yet we won't even define where that arbitrary line is.

[SouthpawRight]

I agree, I have Oscar ahead of Canelo. But I'm still wondering where the line is for ATG? Top 10, top 50, top 100? Where is the line between someone being an All Time Great and just being 'great', and how close is the lowest ATG to the highest 'just great'.

It just seems like somewhat throw out a cool sounding designation that has an arbitrary line for earning that designation, yet we won't even define where that arbitrary line is.

Top 100 makes room for great fighters from the past that have been lost to time

Top 50 would miss these guys

Top 10

1. Sugar Robinson
2. Harry
3. Henry
4. Sam
5. Ezzard
6. Willie
7. Muhammad
8. Roberto
9. Sugar Leonard
10. Floyd

6 through 10 can be moved around

[djtmal]

Tommy Hearns was knocked out by Ray Leonard. You said anyone that's been knocked out isn't in their prime.

Hearns was in his prime

[djtmal]

I get what you are writing, but boxing being the business it is doesn't always allow for that- sometimes guys just don't fight other bests at their best.

That just lends itself to fanboys like Big Dunn making a million and one excuses as to why this guy or that guy ducked their guy so they couldn't fight them prime, etc. That's just a big waste of time.

You get full credit for beating prime fighters

[IronDanHamza]

Hearns was in his prime

How can that be when you said anyone who's been knocked out isn't in their prime?

Hearns was KO'd and raked through the coals when Hagler beat him. As was every single HOF'er Hagler beat.

He only beat two past prime ones Both raked through the coals and beaten up before Hagler beat them.

Let alone a prime ATG.