Let’s call a spade a spade… Is Bivol “ducking” Benavidez?

[LarryMerchant'sBottle]

In order. First, I mentioned the IRS because they could explain to Oracle some possible reasons it might benefit someone to underreport their earnings. Nothing else implied.

Second, the original reports about splitting a 20 mill purse came from Boxing Kingdom and Marca, and are from prior to the fight, and they don't have any motive to lie about the numbers. You should know by now that these kinds of reports don't name their sources, because those are confidential, for reasons that ought to be obvious. So what benefit does a boxing news channel get for using one number over another? Where do you think those numbers come from? If their source had told them "2.7 mill with a PPV upside", do you think they'd change that to "10 mill" just randomly? In contrast, all the reports citing the 2-3 million amount are dated after Sulaiman's interview. So that can be traced back to him. So the disconnect here is that you don't seem to think he could be lying about it, even though he's directly financially involved in whether Bivol chooses to fight for the WBC belt, while you categorically disbelieve boxing news sites who have no personal benefit in using one number over another.

Third, you have yet to answer several relevant questions.

1. We know Bivol got 5 million vs Canelo. We know that he got around 2 million for Arthur, and around 2.5 million for Zurdo. Do you have any reason to disbelieve those numbers? Those were for mandatory defenses. So why would he be getting 2.7 vs Beterbiev for undisputed? How does that make sense?

2. Why would boxers be signing up to Riyadh Season in droves if they're not getting big money as advertised?

3. You're relying on these numbers from Sulaiman, but I provided you with another interview from Benavidez' promoter, who said specifically that the fight with Bivol wasn't going to happen because Sampson "would never go to Saudi Arabia" and "Turki said he wasn't going to bid on it". When pressed, he said defensively that PBC could come up with the money, but made zero mention of any offers, let alone an 8 million dollar amount. So if Benavidez' own promoter knows nothing about an 8 million dollar offer, why would Sulaiman? Where did that come from? So, from the exact interview that you are using, he's already potentially lied about one number. Does it stretch credulity to think that a guy who lies regularly, and lied about one number, wouldn't also make up another one, especially when he's got personal financial connections if the fight gets made?

You're simply not being intellectually consistent here. Boxing Kingdom occasionally gets things wrong, but they don't really have a reputation for outright lying about things, and they're usually quite accurate in their reporting. In contrast, Sulaiman regularly lies, and there's evidence he lied about at least one of the numbers he came up with in the same response you're using. You really think that's a more reliable source than an independent news site that has nothing to gain from using one number over another? If so, you're in the minority, as credible news sites, felt like it was reliable enough to publish and attribute.

Finally, I generally also respect your posts, and also appreciate your disinterest in stooping to add hominem in place of logic. That's part of why I'm disappointed that you are placing such trust in a proven liar like Sulaiman. That guy is scum, and if he had a personal stake in it, I think it would be worth questioning his veracity if he said the sun was going to rise tomorrow. If you want to trust him, that's your right. But don't say you weren't warned.

Let me answer your relevant questions first.

1. Bivol got $5 million because of Canelo and Canelo alone. $2.7 million is $700k more than what he earned for the first fight against Beter, that's a good increase(close to 30%) for a fighter that doesn't sell much to be honest. You have to know(or maybe you don't know) that in today's boxing market, the amount of money you make has nothing to do with whether you are fighting for undisputed, for just one belt or for no belt at all. Just look at Jake vs Tyson as an example. The truth of the matter is that the Bivol-Beter fight is not worth much financially, it does not generate much money or interest from the world. As it is, Turki is over paying Bivol at $2.7 million from a financial point of view. The fight only did 49k PPV buys at $30 here in the States and the arena it was in was a 6000 seater or less and the card was STACKED! There is a reason why the fight didn't take place 4 years ago and that is because the promoters weren't willing to lose money paying these guys $2 million each. Enter Turki who was willing to pay these guys $2 million each to fight each other with the understanding that losing a couple of million on this fight wouldn't hurt his wallet.

2. Boxers are signing up to fight Riyadh because it's work! Yes, they do get bit more, just not these endless amounts that folks think they are making. I'm gonna guess about 30% more in most cases, but that's just a guess. Do you honestly think Virgil wouldn't have fought Madrimov here in the States? Or that Shakur wouldn't have fought here in the States? Riyadh is just another outlet for professional fighters to make money, although true that they make a little more. Fighters will go and fight where they are hired to fight, it's their job, it's how they feed their family. I've yet to hear one boxer say "I won't fight anywhere but SA or for Turki".

3. Turki said he was not gonna bid on the Bivol-Benn fight after he learned that there was interest in making Bivol-Benn after Turki himself said that he wanted to stage the trilogy next, which led him to throwing a tantrum. We've seen his behavior before when he feels disrespected. He said the same thing when Ginger didn't agree to meet with him and discuss a fight against Bud before his Berlanga fight. Turki's words were "I am not interested in the Canelo fight anymore, we will move on with other plans".

As for Sulaiman, I'm not believing him because I trust him. What I am saying is that as of right now, nobody who has actual insight to what Bivol actually made has talked about the money that Bivol made. No one but Sulaiman, that is. If I read or hear from Eddie or from team Bivol, from Turki or from anyone close to these guys I'd be inclined to believe them over Sulaiman, but as I've gotten older, I've learned that most of the info from articles are just guesses which wind up on multi articles because columnists are to lazy to actually dig for truthful information from real sources nowadays...

[crimsonfalcon07]

Let me answer your relevant questions first.

1. Bivol got $5 million because of Canelo and Canelo alone. $2.7 million is $700k more than what he earned for the first fight against Beter, that's a good increase(close to 30%) for a fighter that doesn't sell much to be honest. You have to know(or maybe you don't know) that in today's boxing market, the amount of money you make has nothing to do with whether you are fighting for undisputed, for just one belt or for no belt at all. Just look at Jake vs Tyson as an example. The truth of the matter is that the Bivol-Beter fight is not worth much financially, it does not generate much money or interest from the world. As it is, Turki is over paying Bivol at $2.7 million from a financial point of view. The fight only did 49k PPV buys at $30 here in the States and the arena it was in was a 6000 seater or less and the card was STACKED! There is a reason why the fight didn't take place 4 years ago and that is because the promoters weren't willing to lose money paying these guys $2 million each. Enter Turki who was willing to pay these guys $2 million each to fight each other with the understanding that losing a couple of million on this fight wouldn't hurt his wallet.

2. Boxers are signing up to fight Riyadh because it's work! Yes, they do get bit more, just not these endless amounts that folks think they are making. I'm gonna guess about 30% more in most cases, but that's just a guess. Do you honestly think Virgil wouldn't have fought Madrimov here in the States? Or that Shakur wouldn't have fought here in the States? Riyadh is just another outlet for professional fighters to make money, although true that they make a little more. Fighters will go and fight where they are hired to fight, it's their job, it's how they feed their family. I've yet to hear one boxer say "I won't fight anywhere but SA or for Turki".

3. Turki said he was not gonna bid on the Bivol-Benn fight after he learned that there was interest in making Bivol-Benn after Turki himself said that he wanted to stage the trilogy next, which led him to throwing a tantrum. We've seen his behavior before when he feels disrespected. He said the same thing when Ginger didn't agree to meet with him and discuss a fight against Bud before his Berlanga fight. Turki's words were "I am not interested in the Canelo fight anymore, we will move on with other plans".

As for Sulaiman, I'm not believing him because I trust him. What I am saying is that as of right now, nobody who has actual insight to what Bivol actually made has talked about the money that Bivol made. No one but Sulaiman, that is. If I read or hear from Eddie or from team Bivol, from Turki or from anyone close to these guys I'd be inclined to believe them over Sulaiman, but as I've gotten older, I've learned that most of the info from articles are just guesses which wind up on multi articles because columnists are to lazy to actually dig for truthful information from real sources nowadays...

Fair enough. You do you, and we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. TBH, I'd rather see the Benavidez fight. I thought Bivol won the first fight and won the second fight clear, so while I think we'll always get a fantastic fight out of those two from a sweet science perspective, I would really like to get some better answers about what level Benavidez is really at. He's already beaten two fighters I have a lot of respect for skill-wise, so it's time to see if he's got P4P credentials and can hang with Bivol or not. I'm currently of the opinion that he loses vs both Bivol and Beterbiev, but I've been wrong about him before, and I'm still trying to figure out what he does that pitches my analysis into the trash all the time.

[Smash]

To me, it seemed as he might be paying about 30% above market value. That was my guess after I learned how much Bud's guarantee was for the Madrimov fight,
:

interesting u think bud making 2.5 mil for his 154 debut on a turki card is about 30% above market value for him

i wouldnt want u as an accountant

take a look at this youtube video with andre ward interviewing crawford recently

they talk about turki and turki told bud that he is his favourite fighter and bud says that turki understood him and he agreed that he should fight more often but the promoters dont like bud and dont appreciate the numbers he brings but bud says turki does appreciate this

& then offers him 2.5 mil for his fight!! lol

does not make any sense to me anyway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeQY8Ch3vz4

[LarryMerchant'sBottle]

But I don't think they would be making off record payments because they wouldn't need to. I'm not an expert in Tax, so correct my assumptions if I've got this wrong. Bud is from Nebraska, so I assume he only need to report earnings to CA state based on any work undertaken in that state such as his last fight? So he can get paid a purse which is directly for his participation in a fight. That gets declared to CA state. Outside of that, he could get offered $5mil to be a brand ambassador for Riyadh Season, for 12 months, in which he is "required" to attend a Riyadh Season show or some other pretend obligation he probably doesn't have to fulfil. That isn't income related to a boxing fight, so that wouldn't need to be reported as part of his fight earnings. But he would still need to declare it on his tax returns, etc as other income

Yes! Any monies that Bud made out of California State would not need to be declared to the State of California. He would however have to report all his earnings, no matter where he earns it, to the IRS.

Bud might very well be making money as a brand ambassador for Riyadh as a way for Turki to make up for the low amount of money made against Madrimov. I wouldn't argue that he isn't because I don't know that he isn't, but it hasn't been reported via media that a deal does exist.

Something very similar was announced by Turki, not too long ago, in regards to Inoue. I think it was reported that Turki had signed Inoue to a $20 million dollar deal to feature his name or face, I can't recall.

One thing apparent now, is that Turki wants to associate every boxing star brand to Riyadh, that's why he overpaid Canelo for a 4 fight deal. He already has the UK boxing stars, signing the biggest star in western hemisphere was a priority for him.

Although Bud isn't a big marketable star, he is recognized as a P4P star amongst his peers and the boxing community so he might very well have some sort of endorsement deal with Turki that we just haven't heard about.

For the past month or 2 Bud has been seen everywhere, he's been smart in turning up at everyone of his boxing team's fights, events for kids. Somebody(I suspect Floyd) has given him some great marketing advice. If he happens to beat Canelo, he's gonna blow up big time and will most definitely become the face of boxing...

[HandsofIron]

No, Benavidez looked fat, slow and pudgy at 175.

Right now, Bivol beats him, maybe after a few more fights at 75 for David, the match up might be closer in competition.

[LarryMerchant'sBottle]

interesting u think bud making 2.5 mil for his 154 debut on a turki card is about 30% above market value for him

i wouldnt want u as an accountant

take a look at this youtube video with andre ward interviewing crawford recently

they talk about turki and turki told bud that he is his favourite fighter and bud says that turki understood him and he agreed that he should fight more often but the promoters dont like bud and dont appreciate the numbers he brings but bud says turki does appreciate this

& then offers him 2.5 mil for his fight!! lol

does not make any sense to me anyway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeQY8Ch3vz4

I didn't make up the $2.5 million amount. That's a factual number that has been filed and reported in California. Let me ask you, how much do you think Turki paid him and what source is reporting that number?

At the very least quote a legit source and not just an article that estimates. Can you do that???

[LarryMerchant'sBottle]

No, Benavidez looked fat, slow and pudgy at 175.

Right now, Bivol beats him, maybe after a few more fights at 75 for David, the match up might be closer in competition.

I think so too, I think Bena gives him hell early in the fight, but Bivol weathers the storm and dominates about 8 rounds.

[LarryMerchant'sBottle]

Fair enough. You do you, and we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. TBH, I'd rather see the Benavidez fight. I thought Bivol won the first fight and won the second fight clear, so while I think we'll always get a fantastic fight out of those two from a sweet science perspective, I would really like to get some better answers about what level Benavidez is really at. He's already beaten two fighters I have a lot of respect for skill-wise, so it's time to see if he's got P4P credentials and can hang with Bivol or not. I'm currently of the opinion that he loses vs both Bivol and Beterbiev, but I've been wrong about him before, and I'm still trying to figure out what he does that pitches my analysis into the trash all the time.

Yeah, Bivol-Benn is the fight I want to see next. Win or lose, Bena will go for broke against Bivol, in my opinion. Bivol's made a believer out of me, the guy is great!

[Smash]

Let me ask you, how much do you think Turki paid him and what source is reporting that number?

id say about 50 bucks

[Smash]

At the very least quote a legit source and not just an article that estimates. Can you do that???

yes i have that site and source just didnt want to post it because this discussion was just so good