Terence Crawford vs Naoya Inoue vs Oleksandr Usyk resume deep dives

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  • Smash
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    #21
    Originally posted by hugh grant
    Cruiserweight beat the best heavyweights, nothing unexpected there.
    u have low expectations

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    • famicommander
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      #22
      Originally posted by IronDanHamza

      Yeah by far.

      On paper it's not but that's why things aren't judged on paper.

      Inoue's resume isn't even close to Usyk's.
      Explain your reasoning.

      Inoue has wins in 5 divisions, belts in 4 divisions, undisputed lineal championships in 2 divisions, 14-0 vs the top 10, 9-0 vs the top 5, 8-0 vs reigning world titlists, and 5-0 vs the top rated opponent in his division.

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      • dan_cov
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        #23
        Usyks resume by miles, for me clearly #1 even before last night which for me was against, a very good version of Fury.
        Truly a special man and a fighter.

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        • Smash
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          #24
          fury & usyk were both winners
          when 2 winners clash there has to be a loser or there usually is a loser
          usyk was more of a winner than fury on the night
          fury should take a page out of usyks book and quit the belly clowning, try laser focused and leave Dad at home
          roll the dice and see what happens
          if u lose the 2nd time, no excuses

          like AJ, who was sitting watching thinking, damn i wish i could fight like that

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          • crimsonfalcon07
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            #25
            Originally posted by famicommander
            Surprised at so little love for Crawford.

            Maybe if he beats Madrimov for his 4th divisional title it will help.
            Crawford tends to lose ground for many because of inactivity. And for me, Inoue is clearly #1 because of the level of challenge he gives himself. No other active boxer goes straight for the best guy in the division in their debut. Usyk, as WBO cruiserweight, could have had an immediate shot at AJ, but he took a couple interim fights. Crawford didn't go straight for #1 when he moved up. Inoue has done so 3 times.

            There's still guys at 147 that are viewed as threats to Bud (although that's at least in part because they avoided him, just as Chocolatito, Estrada, SSR, etc avoided Inoue). There's still guys at heavyweight (and at cruiserweight) that are still viewed as threats to Usyk. Inoue is well on his way to completely cleaning out another division, and there's not really anyone who was active at the time he was fighting in any of his major divisions that could be viewed as a threat. He's not 4 division lineal only because of the vagaries of lineal and some judicious ducking by his opponents.

            There are two ways to measure HOF talent, generally. Resume (quality of opposition) and dominance (how long did they rule and were there credible threats left). Inoue stands up well in both categories. Can anyone say the same about the other 2?

            When it comes to a skill analysis, if we took Usyk, skill for skill, and dropped him in at lightweight, he's simply not got as many tools as his compatriot Loma. He's a virtuoso compared to heavyweights, but he doesn't have the inside game, or as nuanced a defensive game.

            For me, that's what P4P means. Do I think they would do well if sized for a different division? How have they challenged themselves? Inoue is the only fighter I know of who signed a contract to never take an easy fight and has taken the best available competition for his entire career with no caveats and clauses. YMMV.​​​​​​

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            • famicommander
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              #26
              Originally posted by crimsonfalcon07

              Crawford tends to lose ground for many because of inactivity. And for me, Inoue is clearly #1 because of the level of challenge he gives himself. No other active boxer goes straight for the best guy in the division in their debut. Usyk, as WBO cruiserweight, could have had an immediate shot at AJ, but he took a couple interim fights. Crawford didn't go straight for #1 when he moved up. Inoue has done so 3 times.

              There's still guys at 147 that are viewed as threats to Bud (although that's at least in part because they avoided him, just as Chocolatito, Estrada, SSR, etc avoided Inoue). There's still guys at heavyweight (and at cruiserweight) that are still viewed as threats to Usyk. Inoue is well on his way to completely cleaning out another division, and there's not really anyone who was active at the time he was fighting in any of his major divisions that could be viewed as a threat. He's not 4 division lineal only because of the vagaries of lineal and some judicious ducking by his opponents.

              There are two ways to measure HOF talent, generally. Resume (quality of opposition) and dominance (how long did they rule and were there credible threats left). Inoue stands up well in both categories. Can anyone say the same about the other 2?

              When it comes to a skill analysis, if we took Usyk, skill for skill, and dropped him in at lightweight, he's simply not got as many tools as his compatriot Loma. He's a virtuoso compared to heavyweights, but he doesn't have the inside game, or as nuanced a defensive game.

              For me, that's what P4P means. Do I think they would do well if sized for a different division? How have they challenged themselves? Inoue is the only fighter I know of who signed a contract to never take an easy fight and has taken the best available competition for his entire career with no caveats and clauses. YMMV.​​​​​​
              Crawford tends to take a lot more heat for his activity than Usyk for some reason.

              Usyk has fought:
              once in 2024 (so far)
              once in 2023
              once in 2022
              once in 2021
              once in 2020
              once in 2019
              three times in 2018

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              • IronDanHamza
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                #27
                Originally posted by famicommander

                Explain your reasoning.

                Inoue has wins in 5 divisions, belts in 4 divisions, undisputed lineal championships in 2 divisions, 14-0 vs the top 10, 9-0 vs the top 5, 8-0 vs reigning world titlists, and 5-0 vs the top rated opponent in his division.
                Again, just stats on paper. No context.

                Amongst those stats are fighters like Paul fucking Butler for crying out loud.

                My reasoning is Usyk's resume is WAY better. His wins are WAY better. He beat WAY better fighters.

                It's very straight forward. Resume for resume, there is no comparison.

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                • famicommander
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                  #28
                  Originally posted by IronDanHamza

                  Again, just stats on paper. No context.

                  Amongst those stats are fighters like Paul fucking Butler for crying out loud.

                  My reasoning is Usyk's resume is WAY better. His wins are WAY better. He beat WAY better fighters.

                  It's very straight forward. Resume for resume, there is no comparison.
                  You still haven't provided reasoning. You just keep saying Usyk is better because Usyk is better.

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                  • crimsonfalcon07
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                    #29
                    Originally posted by famicommander

                    Crawford tends to take a lot more heat for his activity than Usyk for some reason.

                    Usyk has fought:
                    once in 2024 (so far)
                    once in 2023
                    once in 2022
                    once in 2021
                    once in 2020
                    once in 2019
                    three times in 2018
                    Usyk's activity, at least over the last 3-4 years, can be traced back to negotiations with Fury. Same can be said for AJ. Fury has done a great job of hanging up the division. It's better to look at how much time was spent between breaking off negotiations with Fury and when Usyk got in the ring.

                    The same can be said of Crawford with respect to Spence in recent years, but he wasn't exactly the most active before either. Inoue has a distinct advantage in that he's the cash cow and, unlike others, uses that status to MAKE the big fights, and make them quickly.

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                    • dan_cov
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                      #30
                      Inoues best win is a shot, nearing 40yr old Donaire who has virtually lost every time he has stepped up.
                      Inoue could have easily fought Estrada, Chocolatito and a whole host of great fighters, he fought none. Not one!

                      Usyk fought all of the top guys, the elites, on Road more or less all at their peak!
                      ​Most of which was not only skilled but had one punch power and many of which had huge size advantages over him.

                      Most of these guys on Inoues resume straight up aren't even on a Mchunu's level who is probably not even in Usyks top 10 wins. Skill wise, talentwise or as far as resumes go.​

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