Comments Thread For: Derrick James Hints at Rift With Errol Spence Jr., Focuses on Other Charges

[crimsonfalcon07]

I picked Crawford by KO too, but it doesn’t change the fact that it was perceived as a 50/50 fight by every major sports book and the vast majority of boxing journalists.

Spence is a truly elite fighter, quality amateur pedigree, obvious skills and a strong resume to back it up. Smashed Kell Brook on the road in the UK, smashed Lamont Peterson, won a hard fought decision over Shawn Porter, one sided decision win against Danny Garcia, smashed Yordenis Ugas, all of which we’re top 10, if not top 5 ranked guys. All of which former or current World Champions.

I hear you. Just pointing out that the guy is actually on record with a pretty solid call prior to the fight.

Since you're saying that Spence is a truly elite fighter, I'd love to hear a little more about why you think so, at your convenience. You say the skills are obvious, but I'm not really seeing it. He's a good fighter, but his entire skillset is basic to my eyes. The skills he DOES have are executed well enough to win the fights you mentioned, but if you leave out the hype from welterweight, he feels to me like a good, maybe great fighter, but not elite. I've thought for years that he was being overrated entirely for being in the welterweight division with good and careful matchmaking. Suppose you shrink him and drop him in against prime Chocolatito, for instance, or prime Loma. Prime vs prime, skill vs skill. Does he do well in those fights in your eyes? Why? I'd love to benefit from your insight on the matter, if you have some technical points.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

I hear you. Just pointing out that the guy is actually on record with a pretty solid call prior to the fight.

Since you're saying that Spence is a truly elite fighter, I'd love to hear a little more about why you think so, at your convenience. You say the skills are obvious, but I'm not really seeing it. He's a good fighter, but his entire skillset is basic to my eyes. The skills he DOES have are executed well enough to win the fights you mentioned, but if you leave out the hype from welterweight, he feels to me like a good, maybe great fighter, but not elite. I've thought for years that he was being overrated entirely for being in the welterweight division with good and careful matchmaking. Suppose you shrink him and drop him in against prime Chocolatito, for instance, or prime Loma. Prime vs prime, skill vs skill. Does he do well in those fights in your eyes? Why? I'd love to benefit from your insight on the matter, if you have some technical points.

Spence is a complete fighter IMO, can fight at long, mid and short range- great inside fighter. Good jab, which sets up a lot of his work, very good body puncher and a high volume combination puncher. I see quite a bit of McCallum in Spence.

Terence Crawford is just a very, very special talent IMO. I don’t think him decisively beating Spence takes anything away from Errol’s ability, that’s what can happen when the best fight the best. Hearns-Duran, Jones-Toney, Mayweather-Corrales, Pacquiao-Barrera etc. Sometimes guys are just that much better than you on the night.

Crawford’s ability to read opponents is phenomenal. I was lucky enough to sit pretty close to ring to watch Crawford-Spence live and it was an absolute masterclass. Best performance I’ve ever seen live.

[crimsonfalcon07]

Spence is a complete fighter IMO, can fight at long, mid and short range- great inside fighter. Good jab, which sets up a lot of his work, very good body puncher and a high volume combination puncher. I see quite a bit of McCallum in Spence.

Terence Crawford is just a very, very special talent IMO. I don’t think him decisively beating Spence takes anything away from Errol’s ability, that’s what can happen when the best fight the best. Hearns-Duran, Jones-Toney, Mayweather-Corrales, Pacquiao-Barrera etc. Sometimes guys are just that much better than you on the night.

Crawford’s ability to read opponents is phenomenal. I was lucky enough to sit pretty close to ring to watch Crawford-Spence live and it was an absolute masterclass. Best performance I’ve ever seen live.

Thanks for the thoughts. I don't view him as a complete fighter. He's got a bad habit of holding his hands at around his chest, he moves in straight lines, doesn't have much in the way of head movements, has very basic footwork and almost never takes an angle. And he fights almost exclusively on the front foot. That's a lot of skills missing for a complete fighter.

As you said, he's got a pretty good jab, and sets up most of his work behind that, which also means when you take that jab away, he's in struggle city. He has a bad habit of loading up on punches, which leaves him vulnerable to being timed and countered. He struggles with fighters with good feet. He's not defensively responsible during his volume combination punching either.

The other big question is whether Crawford or the car accident or both cracked his chin. He gets caught not infrequently, and before the accident he had a pretty good chin. But a car accident isn't insignificant, and Bud put a hellacious beating on him. He may not have the durability he once had, and he almost certainly has lost the confidence. How's he going to react? He's not got the skills to fight on the outside, and his style requires confidence in his invincibility, which just took a mortal blow. If you just got stopped badly as a swarming pressure fighter, often that means you won't be as prone to pull the trigger, and you may hesitate, and both will cost big.

Add to that a trainer change, and his apparent intention to jump back in against a hard opponent with a brand new trainer and likely a lot of ring rust, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him get stopped again, badly, and get retired for good.

[Bronx2245]

a trainer can only do so much... it's up to the fighter to go out and execute it. the trainer doesnt fight for the fighter. when a fighter is clearly better than his opponent, then there is nothing a trainer can do or help his opponent that will change anything.

Thank You Brother! Well said!

[Bronx2245]

Shakur has been saying he wanted to test his free market value so I'm not surprised TR isn't letting him go out on a high note. Or is trying to keep the offers he gets down cuz he almost for sure has a matching rights clause with his TR deal that will probably keep him at TR unless this relationship is truly broken & TR declines to match his best offer.

This is why anyone with name value to do 500k+ gate or is doing PPV's on the reg shouldn't be signing anything other than a multi fight (3 fight max) deal. If Shakur does get loose he shouldn't do a long term deal with whoever he signs with & I think hes intelligent enough to do just that.

I think Bud will show him the way, since he also got jerked by Arum!

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

Thanks for the thoughts. I don't view him as a complete fighter. He's got a bad habit of holding his hands at around his chest, he moves in straight lines, doesn't have much in the way of head movements, has very basic footwork and almost never takes an angle. And he fights almost exclusively on the front foot. That's a lot of skills missing for a complete fighter.

As you said, he's got a pretty good jab, and sets up most of his work behind that, which also means when you take that jab away, he's in struggle city. He has a bad habit of loading up on punches, which leaves him vulnerable to being timed and countered. He struggles with fighters with good feet. He's not defensively responsible during his volume combination punching either.

The other big question is whether Crawford or the car accident or both cracked his chin. He gets caught not infrequently, and before the accident he had a pretty good chin. But a car accident isn't insignificant, and Bud put a hellacious beating on him. He may not have the durability he once had, and he almost certainly has lost the confidence. How's he going to react? He's not got the skills to fight on the outside, and his style requires confidence in his invincibility, which just took a mortal blow. If you just got stopped badly as a swarming pressure fighter, often that means you won't be as prone to pull the trigger, and you may hesitate, and both will cost big.

Add to that a trainer change, and his apparent intention to jump back in against a hard opponent with a brand new trainer and likely a lot of ring rust, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him get stopped again, badly, and get retired for good.

I largely disagree tbh man. I think he’s a lot more skilled than you give him credit for. I rate his footwork tbh, he cuts the ring off well as we seen in the Brook fight for example and then he has shown he can box at long range against Danny Garcia for example.

This sports all about opinions though, I respect your stance, we can agree to disagree.

I do suspect he may never be the same fighter, a beating like the one he took against Crawford effects you both physically and mentally.

[BlackRobb]

Every major bookmaker had it as a pick em.

Feel free to post your bet slip where you bet your life savings on Crawford as you knew it was such a sure thing. I’ll wait…

I didn't bet on DraftKings. I should have. I made $550 betting suckers in my Facebook boxing group. I wish I could have found more suckers. 50/50 fight my azz!

[BlackRobb]

I clicked on the wrong fight cards. I had Porter vs Spence up instead of Porter vs Crawford. My mistake. But yes, i did have it 6/3 to Porter after 9 completed rounds. Crawford wasn't doing anything. What rounds did you have Crawford winning?

I have the actual punch stats for Ramirez vs Dogboe. I counted the scoring punches. Not one round in the first half did Ramirez out-land Dogboe. It was clearly the other way. I'd be only too happy to go over the fight with you and prove my case. But we both know you're not going to. That's good enough for me in proving my point.

I went back and scored it again after our last exchange. I found only one clear round to give Dogboe. BoxingScene scored 116-111 for Ramirez. That was extremely generous because no way I'm Hell did Dogboe win four rounds. He basically followed Ramirez around the ring and landed the occasional body shot, never anything sustained.

Just be glad that Dogboe never faced the guy who washed Ramirez. He would have gotten knocked back to the UK.

You're right. Without the late knockdown, Porter would have gotten the decision.

[BlackRobb]

A ton of people believed Crawford was the better fighter, and many of us predicted a one-sided victory for Bud, but that doesn't change the fact that the overwhelming majority of fans considered it a competitive or even a pick 'em fight going in. They may not post about it much these days, but there were just as many hardcore fans on this and other forums who picked Spence to win. Vegas gave the edge only slightly to Bud

Those fans who believed it was a 50/50 fight were not sane. I know the type. The hip hop head boxing fans who don't know sht about boxing. I have them in my FB boxing group. I made $550 off these fools. I'm angry at myself for not finding more of them. I was telling these goofs back in 2018 that Bud would destroy Errol. I didn't just start saying it in 2022.

[crimsonfalcon07]

I largely disagree tbh man. I think he’s a lot more skilled than you give him credit for. I rate his footwork tbh, he cuts the ring off well as we seen in the Brook fight for example and then he has shown he can box at long range against Danny Garcia for example.

This sports all about opinions though, I respect your stance, we can agree to disagree.

I do suspect he may never be the same fighter, a beating like the one he took against Crawford effects you both physically and mentally.

That's a good point about cutting the ring. That's a pretty difficult skill that a lot of fighters don't have (looking at you, Teo).