Comments Thread For: WBC Explains Their Position on 'Atypical Findings' in Artur Beterbiev's VADA Tests

[dan-b]

there's not enough money in the lower levels of boxing to do what you suggest.

I didn't suggest anything, I asked a question.

Overall governance is a red herring - that wouldn't produce all the money needed to test all pro boxers in the world.

I don't think it's a red herring. The example of the UCI in cycling is a good one for boxing. I don't know how far their testing regime stretches, but evidently it's universally applied once one reaches a certain level of success/participation. In boxing you can have a WBC and a WBA titleholder, in the same weight class, subject to completely different testing protocols.

The UCI is able to attract sponsorship which provides more funding for running events to a better standard in a way that boxing can't.

[Square circle]

I am certainly not an expert on PED's, but his team has said he goes to the Russian mountains to train prior to the start of his actual training camps. Possible he could take something during this phase to get a high stamina and strength baseline, but stops before the start of training camp. I have noticed and posted before the Joe Smith Jr. bout, that in many of his fights, especially for a man in his upper 30's there is a large amount acne that is evident on his back and rear shoulders, which is sometimes a sign of steroid use. Once again, I'm not an expert, Just speculation.

[kiaba360]

From other reports, atypical findings are common. You never hear about them because they are irrelevant and not mentioned. Eddie Hearn has known about this test result for well more than a month, but the day before the fight, he decides to mention it. He's trying to use this as a way to making himself out to be a victim with Connor Ben's positive test results, that there's a double standard. The difference, of course, is that one guy actually tested positive and Beterbiev tested negative.

It may also be to play mind games with Beterbiev, make him too aggressive in the ring and create openings for Smith.

[SteveM]

I didn't suggest anything, I asked a question.



I don't think it's a red herring. The example of the UCI in cycling is a good one for boxing. I don't know how far their testing regime stretches, but evidently it's universally applied once one reaches a certain level of success/participation. In boxing you can have a WBC and a WBA titleholder, in the same weight class, subject to completely different testing protocols.

The UCI is able to attract sponsorship which provides more funding for running events to a better standard in a way that boxing can't.

you said "because that's what's needed" - I read that as a suggestion

I don't know much about cycling but it seems to me for the Tours in France, Spain, Italy and wherever else its going to be the same 100-200 riders and they are all in the same place for an event. The logistics for testing are wildly different to professional fights taking place in a dozen or more countries every weekend and thousands of pro boxers.

[SteveM]

I am certainly not an expert on PED's, but his team has said he goes to the Russian mountains to train prior to the start of his actual training camps. Possible he could take something during this phase to get a high stamina and strength baseline, but stops before the start of training camp. I have noticed and posted before the Joe Smith Jr. bout, that in many of his fights, especially for a man in his upper 30's there is a large amount acne that is evident on his back and rear shoulders, which is sometimes a sign of steroid use. Once again, I'm not an expert, Just speculation.

Anything is possible but until you are caught with an adverse finding you should be presumed innocent.

[Smash]

Vada founder and chair Margaret Goodman told Boxing News: “Atypical findings are fairly common in PED [performance-enhancing drug] testing and do not constitute an adverse test result. They can result from various causes

make of that what u will

fairly common means they are happening fairly regularly but we are not hearing about them, except this time when eddie decided he wanted to make his point (whatever that sleezy point is of course)

most camps dont disclose them i presume as if they disclose someone elses and someone in their camp had one too......... mightnt look so good possibly

[Smash]

I am certainly not an expert on PED's, but his team has said he goes to the Russian mountains to train prior to the start of his actual training camps. Possible he could take something during this phase to get a high stamina and strength baseline

u are on to something here

going up the the mountains is always a bit su****ious

[Eff Pandas]

What would it cost to have every registered professional boxer enrolled in year-round testing? Because that's what's needed.

It's only really champions/titleholders, their challengers, and guys in the top 15 of the WBC who have ad hoc VADA testing. Even that's inconsistently applied.

Contracting in VADA has always been a sticking plaster, and an expensive one only certain fighters can afford. Does the health of an Indonesian rookie matter less than Canelo's for example? I don't think so.

Without overall governance I don't see how boxing gets to a situation similar to that of cycling. The WBC like to masquerade as a governing body but they're not, they're a sanctioning body.

Thats a fair point & I get it.

But is there any sport thats doing 24/7/365 testing of 20,000+ athletes? Ig maybe the Olympics. No league or individual sport is doing it that I'm aware of. The UFC is the premier testing league in combat sports & they only got 500-700 athletes on the roster they are testing at any time.

I think its unrealistic to test everyone 24/7/365, but testing the top 15 guys in each division, which would probably be a similar number to the UFC roster, is an attainable goal. But yea they need to be consistently testing for that to be effective & the last I've heard they aren't doing it with much consistency which makes it a paper tiger at catching PED users & discouraging PED usage at even the top level of the sport.

[crimsonfalcon07]

If atypical findings were due to natural levels, wouldn't past tests have shown the same? How much can HGH and testosterone fluctuate within a couple fights? Honestly, why even announce the levels if he didn't fail the test? People are going to run with whatever narrative they want and he'll always be surrounded by a PED cloud now.

The answer is, a lot. Testosterone in men 30-40 fluctuates as much as 35% over the span of just a day. He's also been out more than usual with his surgery, and both testosterone and HGH are heavily affected by physical exercise, particularly of the sort common in boxing. So Beterbiev could have had a lower baseline range than usual, and it could have gone up significantly as he ramped up his camp.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...te%20afternoon.

They didn't "announce" the levels. They had a finding that merited further testing a MONTH ago, got further testing that came up completely negative, and then the day before the fight Eddie Hearn made a big deal of it. Can you come up with any reasons he might have done that?

[champion4ever]

Last I checked theres abit of a difference between atypical amounts of natural hormones, and atypical amounts of anabolic steroids.

True! Perhaps I worded it differently but you know what I mean man. Roy never tested positive for any steroids either. However, it was implied that he did.

It's because like Beterbiev; His urine tests revealed high elevated levels of testosterone also. Moreover, they just didn't detect atypical findings of just natural hormones in Beterbiev's body but atypical findings of both HGH and testosterone too.

Which are just as bad as steroids. So let's be honest here. Look, I don't know if Beterbiev is juicing or not. All I know is that a reasonable person could deduce that he was probably cycling off just before he popped dirty.

Which possibly explains the atypical findings of HGH and testosterone in his system. That's just my personal opinion and not a fact. I am not saying that he did or didn't because I simply do not know.