Who should Morrell fight if not Benavidez or Canelo right now?

[kiaba360]

Him being #1 at 168 ain't wild. And as to the nationality angle I think ANYONE trying to be big in the US who's not from the US or Hispanic (ideally Mexican, but PR works too) has a rough & uphill battle they will likely lose at becoming a legit MGM Grand, MSG, Dubai Main Event PPV type guy. Really the only two who've done it in recent times is Manny & GGG. So I think its less about activity, everyone is less active these days, & more about the issues with getting fans wanting you as "Their Guy". The first thing I'd be doing if I was with Team David M is getting him talking English as well as a college professor as not speaking English is one of the big hurdles with getting mass popularity in the US. Thats a whole other debate tho.

Agree with the can't avoid you part tho. I keep saying I believe David B was in a very similar position as David M now not long ago & David B made a great blueprint to follow to get to the You Gotta Fight Me Now or Look Like a Douchbag point with Alvarez that he's in now.

If GGG wasn't active and getting stoppages, it would've been damn near impossible for HBO to market him. I think there's a relationship between inactivity and the lack of overall star-power in boxing. It's difficult to become a household name if people forget who you are. Two fights a year for Morrell isn't nearly active enough, especially when he's stopping people quickly and barely taking punishment. At that pace, he should be fighting 3-4 times like GGG was in 2012-2015. Building GGG was top priority for HBO, but Morrell doesn't have that level of support from his machine. Morrell has to find a way to become a greater priority within the PBC hierarchy, or he needs to find a place that will agree to get behind him the way he needs. Learning English is definitely a necessity if he wants to fully crossover, but everyone loves a KO.

David B essentially did what GGG did, but he's in a more advantageous position. Canelo is already Undisputed, and he's the older person in the equation. Canelo cannot wait Benavidez out too long like he tried to do with GGG.

[crimsonfalcon07]

If GGG wasn't active and getting stoppages, it would've been damn near impossible for HBO to market him. I think there's a relationship between inactivity and the lack of overall star-power in boxing. It's difficult to become a household name if people forget who you are. Two fights a year for Morrell isn't nearly active enough, especially when he's stopping people quickly and barely taking punishment.

Seems like a no win though, because the top guys won't fight him, and if he fights the guys who will sign, he just gets accused of "feasting on bums." If WBA won't enforce his nearly 3 year old mandatory, maybe he needs to announce that he's vacating it to fight for the IBF or WBO, who do actually enforce theirs eventually. I bet IBF would jump at the chance to poach a "champion" from the WBA, and would order Morrell v Mbilli or Shishkin in a heartbeat.

[kiaba360]

Seems like a no win though, because the top guys won't fight him, and if he fights the guys who will sign, he just gets accused of "feasting on bums." If WBA won't enforce his nearly 3 year old mandatory, maybe he needs to announce that he's vacating it to fight for the IBF or WBO, who do actually enforce theirs eventually. I bet IBF would jump at the chance to poach a "champion" from the WBA, and would order Morrell v Mbilli or Shishkin in a heartbeat.

This thinking is the trap that many fighters fall into, and it's why boxing is in such a rut right now. Inactivity will hurt Morrell's ability to build a profile big/fast enough to command better opponents. If the top guys won't fight you, then find someone on the ranking who will. In another post, you mentioned Ryder avoiding Morrell. While that may be true, Ryder took advantage of an opportunity that Andrade fumbled: fighting for a mandatory position against Parker. Ryder didn't just become inactive; he found another route to ascend up the rankings. Ryder fought Jacobs, Parker, Canelo, and is now rumored to be facing Munguia. The Morrell fight not happening was a blessing in disguise for Ryder. Hearn also steered Darren Barker away from GGG iirc, and Hearn was under pressure to deliver for Ryder. Morrell doesn't seem to have someone of Hearn's status who is looking out for his interests. Morrell needs to find a route that works for his situation, and find a promoter who is willing to consistently showcase him. If he has to fight a bunch of no-name contenders like Matias to increase his buzz...then so be it. But he has to be fighting three times a year minimum. That WBA secondary title is meaningless, and if the WBA ever gives him grief for fighting WBC/WBO/IBF contenders because no WBA contender will fight him, he should drop it. Activity is of utmost importance.

[Eff Pandas]

If GGG wasn't active and getting stoppages, it would've been damn near impossible for HBO to market him. I think there's a relationship between inactivity and the lack of overall star-power in boxing. It's difficult to become a household name if people forget who you are. Two fights a year for Morrell isn't nearly active enough, especially when he's stopping people quickly and barely taking punishment. At that pace, he should be fighting 3-4 times like GGG was in 2012-2015. Building GGG was top priority for HBO, but Morrell doesn't have that level of support from his machine. Morrell has to find a way to become a greater priority within the PBC hierarchy, or he needs to find a place that will agree to get behind him the way he needs. Learning English is definitely a necessity if he wants to fully crossover, but everyone loves a KO.

David B essentially did what GGG did, but he's in a more advantageous position. Canelo is already Undisputed, and he's the older person in the equation. Canelo cannot wait Benavidez out too long like he tried to do with GGG.

GGG wasn't THAT active vs the norm. Most guys have 2 fights a yr. He had 4 fights his first yr with HBO. 3 fights his 2nd yr. 3 fights his 3rd yr. Then 2 fights or less from then on with HBO & DAZN. I'm not saying being more active doesn't help, but I don't think those 4 extra fights in his first 3yrs with HBO made him. I think he was a bad mfer who was fun to watch & had a fun personality that connected with fans. Those intangible things & his style made him. There's plenty of great boxers from other countries who are as active if not more active early in their run before or since GGG was on the scene that never got where GGG got. The two non-US/non-hispanic boxers to get the biggest following in the US were fun guys with fun styles. I think thats making more inroads with ppl then fighting 1x or 2x more a year early on. Again I'm not saying its hurting them, its definitely helping them to get seen more, but they are fun guys with fun styles being seen more not just simply being seen more is getting them anywhere. I think both guys get where they got regardless of how many times they fought.

Bruh no one is fighting 3-4x a year anymore at this level. The avg top ten guy is fighting every 8mos these days. Doesn't matter if they are with Al, Bob or Eddie. I think they just need to move him up a level in opps. He seems to be drawing ppl at the MN venue & they should keep that as is if everyone is happy with it til he gets some better guys they can move him to a bigger venue for.

[kiaba360]

GGG wasn't THAT active vs the norm. Most guys have 2 fights a yr. He had 4 fights his first yr with HBO. 3 fights his 2nd yr. 3 fights his 3rd yr. Then 2 fights or less from then on with HBO & DAZN. I'm not saying being more active doesn't help, but I don't think those 4 extra fights in his first 3yrs with HBO made him. I think he was a bad mfer who was fun to watch & had a fun personality that connected with fans. Those intangible things & his style made him. There's plenty of great boxers from other countries who are as active if not more active early in their run before or since GGG was on the scene that never got where GGG got. The two non-US/non-hispanic boxers to get the biggest following in the US were fun guys with fun styles. I think thats making more inroads with ppl then fighting 1x or 2x more a year early on. Again I'm not saying its hurting them, its definitely helping them to get seen more, but they are fun guys with fun styles being seen more not just simply being seen more is getting them anywhere. I think both guys get where they got regardless of how many times they fought.

Bruh no one is fighting 3-4x a year anymore at this level. The avg top ten guy is fighting every 8mos these days.Doesn't matter if they are with Al, Bob or Eddie. I think they just need to move him up a level in opps. He seems to be drawing ppl at the MN venue & they should keep that as is if everyone is happy with it til he gets some better guys they can move him to a bigger venue for.

What GGG did from 2012-2015 gave him momentum that continued to carry him for the rest of his career. If you shrink GGG's 2012-2015 from 11 fights to 8 (2 fights per year), it would've taken longer to resonate with the audience and he would've potentially missed his Canelo opportunity. Every 3-4 months, GGG was beating up somebody. I think Morrell would benefit from taking that course of action. Morrell is lucky that he's still only 25, whereas GGG was 30 by the time his HBO run began. GGG was a perfect storm: A fighter with the right amount of style/substance willing to fight often for small money, and a big machine that was willing to invest long-term time and $$$ to cultivate him. Either Team Morrell is being very picky about money/opponents, or PBC can't or isn't willing to prioritize him the way he needs to be. Morrell doesn't want to be 30 with less than 20 fights...frustrated with the state of his career because he wasn't more proactive while he still had his youth. Morrell needs CONSISTENCY. You beat up Agbeko, ok now in 3 months...beat up on Dirrell....in another 3-4 months...beat up another WBA-ranked contender....until your highlight reel becomes so extensive that the fans begin pressuring the fighters who are avoiding you. This shxt isn't rocket science, and the blueprint is there for all to follow.

The average top ten guy is fighting every 8 months, and probably barely any of them are stars. THAT's the problem with boxing in a nutshell.

[crimsonfalcon07]

This thinking is the trap that many fighters fall into, and it's why boxing is in such a rut right now. Inactivity will hurt Morrell's ability to build a profile big/fast enough to command better opponents. If the top guys won't fight you, then find someone on the ranking who will. In another post, you mentioned Ryder avoiding Morrell. While that may be true, Ryder took advantage of an opportunity that Andrade fumbled: fighting for a mandatory position against Parker. Ryder didn't just become inactive; he found another route to ascend up the rankings. Ryder fought Jacobs, Parker, Canelo, and is now rumored to be facing Munguia. The Morrell fight not happening was a blessing in disguise for Ryder. Hearn also steered Darren Barker away from GGG iirc, and Hearn was under pressure to deliver for Ryder. Morrell doesn't seem to have someone of Hearn's status who is looking out for his interests. Morrell needs to find a route that works for his situation, and find a promoter who is willing to consistently showcase him. If he has to fight a bunch of no-name contenders like Matias to increase his buzz...then so be it. But he has to be fighting three times a year minimum. That WBA secondary title is meaningless, and if the WBA ever gives him grief for fighting WBC/WBO/IBF contenders because no WBA contender will fight him, he should drop it. Activity is of utmost importance.

I mean this is flat ridiculous. You're giving Ryder credit for ducking him? Ryder has fought 5 times since Nov 2019. Morrell has fought 8 times in that same time period. Morrell is way more active than Ryder. Ryder could have fought for the WBA mandatory vs Morrell, but chose not to, and went the WBO route instead vs Parker. Let's be honest with ourselves here. Who's the threat? Morrell or Parker? And let's point out that Andrade ducked Parker too. So Benavidez ended up fighting the guy who ducked the guy that Ryder beat rather than fight Morrell, even though his dad and promoter both said he was signed to fight Morrell.

Point is, the other guys who are anywhere near the top are doing the same thing that Ryder did, because the risk/reward fighting Morrell is non-existent. Lower tier guys don't want to end up in a coma. He's still managing to fight twice a year with negotiations with the top guys falling through every year. The biggest issue with his career is that his promoter can't seem to get the WBA to order their mandatory that they've been sitting on for 3 years now.

It's easy to sit on the outside and say "he should fight more" but guys have to be willing to sign on the dotted line. When was the last time you saw a guy call out Morrell?

[garfios]

If GGG wasn't active and getting stoppages, it would've been damn near impossible for HBO to market him. I think there's a relationship between inactivity and the lack of overall star-power in boxing. It's difficult to become a household name if people forget who you are. Two fights a year for Morrell isn't nearly active enough, especially when he's stopping people quickly and barely taking punishment. At that pace, he should be fighting 3-4 times like GGG was in 2012-2015. Building GGG was top priority for HBO, but Morrell doesn't have that level of support from his machine. Morrell has to find a way to become a greater priority within the PBC hierarchy, or he needs to find a place that will agree to get behind him the way he needs. Learning English is definitely a necessity if he wants to fully crossover, but everyone loves a KO.

David B essentially did what GGG did, but he's in a more advantageous position. Canelo is already Undisputed, and he's the older person in the equation. Canelo cannot wait Benavidez out too long like he tried to do with GGG.

Well, he's trying to learn the language. I was surprised how well he spoke the other day after the fight. I think his wife has been a lot of help.

[kiaba360]

I mean this is flat ridiculous. You're giving Ryder credit for ducking him? Ryder has fought 5 times since Nov 2019. Morrell has fought 8 times in that same time period. Morrell is way more active than Ryder. Ryder could have fought for the WBA mandatory vs Morrell, but chose not to, and went the WBO route instead vs Parker. Let's be honest with ourselves here. Who's the threat? Morrell or Parker? And let's point out that Andrade ducked Parker too. So Benavidez ended up fighting the guy who ducked the guy that Ryder beat rather than fight Morrell, even though his dad and promoter both said he was signed to fight Morrell.

Point is, the other guys who are anywhere near the top are doing the same thing that Ryder did, because the risk/reward fighting Morrell is non-existent. Lower tier guys don't want to end up in a coma. He's still managing to fight twice a year with negotiations with the top guys falling through every year. The biggest issue with his career is that his promoter can't seem to get the WBA to order their mandatory that they've been sitting on for 3 years now.

It's easy to sit on the outside and say "he should fight more" but guys have to be willing to sign on the dotted line. When was the last time you saw a guy call out Morrell?

I'm saying that Ryder's career was maneuvered better than Morrell's, after he avoided him. Hearn was probably wanting to reward Ryder for taking the Callum Smith fight, but didn't know how. Ryder narrowly beat Jacobs, which was probably the clue for Hearn that Ryder would be in trouble against Morrell. It was either sacrifice Ryder to Morrell, or find another way. Morrell quickly got to a secondary title (similar to GGG in 2010 when he couldn't get Sturm), but Ryder got a title shot and a Canelo payday simultaneously. That's the curse with Boxing having multiple sanctioning bodies. Morrell has a title, but that alone hasn't increased his value.

Ryder and Morrell are at different stages of their career and have different levels of potential: Morrell is 10 years younger and he debuted in 2019, so it's expected that he'd be more active over that stretch of time. Morrell is a natural SMW, while Ryder is at his second weight...and he wasn't top 10 at MW either. I did say Hearn has done this before with Barker/GGG, but Ryder is even more of an overachiever than Barker was. I don't think Ryder ever won the Lonsdale title.

Guys weren't calling out or clamoring to face GGG either, but he had the WBA secondary title too and Loeffler/HBO found a way to keep him active. I didn't say it was easy, but we've seen it done before and it takes ambition/commitment from every party involved. Morrell has been fighting twice a year since his debut, so his lack of activity is a pattern. A pattern that is being enabled by someone. A pattern that I hope that he changes in 2024 because I don't think it's doing him any favors. I believe Morrell's activity has been slowed, so that he doesn't interfere with Canelo/Benavidez. The quicker Morrell builds a buzz, the sooner everybody will have to deal with him. He is not the top priority. He's behind Canelo, David B, Plant and Jermall. Plant already got a Canelo payday, so he won't be able to avoid Morrell for much longer.

[garfios]

I mean this is flat ridiculous. You're giving Ryder credit for ducking him? Ryder has fought 5 times since Nov 2019. Morrell has fought 8 times in that same time period. Morrell is way more active than Ryder. Ryder could have fought for the WBA mandatory vs Morrell, but chose not to, and went the WBO route instead vs Parker. Let's be honest with ourselves here. Who's the threat? Morrell or Parker? And let's point out that Andrade ducked Parker too. So Benavidez ended up fighting the guy who ducked the guy that Ryder beat rather than fight Morrell, even though his dad and promoter both said he was signed to fight Morrell.

Point is, the other guys who are anywhere near the top are doing the same thing that Ryder did, because the risk/reward fighting Morrell is non-existent. Lower tier guys don't want to end up in a coma. He's still managing to fight twice a year with negotiations with the top guys falling through every year. The biggest issue with his career is that his promoter can't seem to get the WBA to order their mandatory that they've been sitting on for 3 years now.

It's easy to sit on the outside and say "he should fight more" but guys have to be willing to sign on the dotted line. When was the last time you saw a guy call out Morrell?

Agbeko was the last, before that caceres.

[garfios]

I'm saying that Ryder's career was maneuvered better than Morrell's, after he avoided him. Hearn was probably wanting to reward Ryder for taking the Callum Smith fight, but didn't know how. Ryder narrowly beat Jacobs, which was probably the clue for Hearn that Ryder would be in trouble against Morrell. It was either sacrifice Ryder to Morrell, or find another way. Morrell quickly got to a secondary title (similar to GGG in 2010 when he couldn't get Sturm), but Ryder got a title shot and a Canelo payday simultaneously. That's the curse with Boxing having multiple sanctioning bodies. Morrell has a title, but that alone hasn't increased his value.

Ryder and Morrell are at different stages of their career and have different levels of potential: Morrell is 10 years younger and he debuted in 2019, so it's expected that he'd be more active over that stretch of time. Morrell is a natural SMW, while Ryder is at his second weight...and he wasn't top 10 at MW either. I did say Hearn has done this before with Barker/GGG, but Ryder is even more of an overachiever than Barker was. I don't think Ryder ever won the Lonsdale title.

Guys weren't calling out or clamoring to face GGG either, but he had the WBA secondary title too and Loeffler/HBO found a way to keep him active. I didn't say it was easy, but we've seen it done before and it takes ambition/commitment from every party involved. Morrell has been fighting twice a year since his debut, so his lack of activity is a pattern. A pattern that is being enabled by someone. A pattern that I hope that he changes in 2024 because I don't think it's doing him any favors. I believe Morrell's activity has been slowed, so that he doesn't interfere with Canelo/Benavidez. The quicker Morrell builds a buzz, the sooner everybody will have to deal with him. He is not the top priority. He's behind Canelo, David B, Plant and Jermall. Plant already got a Canelo payday, so he won't be able to avoid Morrell for much longer.

It was a duck, they were at ringside for the caceres fight, and after the fight hearns took ryder out of the armory and when asked he said that, and I quote " ryder is moving up to fight bivol". And the Morrell Jr vs rydet was agreed and just needed the signature. He has to fight Parker and jacobs and finally landed the lottery ticket, but he just needed to beat the Cuban for the same ticket. By the way, DMJ after the agbeko fight said that if not benavidez next, he would welcome plant and have nothing but praise for caleb, I guess plan B is not too shabby.