The legacy of a Heavyweight Era

[Willow The Wisp]

I'm an a great admirer of Anthony Joshua and his career work. I support him as a merited Hall-of-Famer.

However, knowing more than a bit about how tenuous big fight negotiations can be, and how trepidations are ever present in the management of high value stars; I ingore claims about the practice of "Ducking" made by bloggers, promoters, credentialed writers and certainly board posters.

What I know with certainty however; is that between January 17, 2015 and June 01, 2019, a period of four and a half years, there were THREE undefeated top three ranked fighters each claiming to be the Heavyweight Champion of the World.

(Joshua 04-09-16 to 06-01-19, Fury 11-28-15 to Current, Wilder 01-17-15 to 02-22-20).

I know also that each of the three did things, such as winning the true Linial title in decisive fashion (Fury), or making a boatload of highlight reel KO title defenses (Wilder) or unifying belts and meeting perhaps the best quality of opposition (Joshua).
Inso doing, each one forged a sterling reputaion and created an era far, far better than the one that proceeded it (The Klitschkos era).

The ONLY thing remaining to be done, then; was for the three title holders to FIGHT EACH OTHER.
Perfectly doable, as this has been done before with the three starts of an era battling it out ala Frazier, Ali and Foreman (+Norton) or Leonard, Duran and Hearns (+Hagler).

But sometimes, circumstances like global pandemic or unexpected losses to underdogs can get in the way of a perfect plan.

For Tyson Fury and Deontay wilder; Nothing got in their way.
They had it out in HISTORIC FASHION!

In recent times, Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Lennox Lewis, Wladimir Klitschko; each one an all-time great; have lost to lesser fighters, and badly.
But as of now, that has never happened to either Tyson Fury or Deontay Wilder, even once.

But it has happened to Anthony Joshua. Three times, in fact.
Indeed, Joshua remains the only heavyweight that Oleksandr Usyk has ever looked good against.
But more importantly; within that circle of three long term undefeated champions, Fury and Wilder stepped up against each other; not once, but three times!

Joshua never did get up against them, being stunned by lesser fighters.

And fair or not, history is going to remember Tyson Fury and Deontay Wilder as the leaders of this tremendous era of Billions; with Anthony Joshua a clear measure behind them, regardless of the impassioned musings of the posting fans.

So why is this right, and why is this wrong?

[crimsonfalcon07]

Seems well reasoned in terms of how things will likely be seen by future historians and fans if things stay as they are. But there's a chance for some big changes to that with the upcoming fights.

What would your take be if AJ fights and beats Wilder?
What if Usyk actually does defeat Fury? What if he does so twice, even by controversial decision? And then what if he decides to defend against Wilder, and Wilder knocks him out? I don't consider any of those in the realm of likely possibilities, but they could all happen. Zhang will have to get his shot at some point as well. Heavyweight being what it is, we'll probably see the rematch between Usyk and Fury be for only 2-3 belts. Looks likely we'll see Hrgovic v Wallin for IBF. Where will ZZ fit in?

After so many delays, I'm actually finally excited to see how this era of heavies shakes out.

[Willow The Wisp]

Seems well reasoned in terms of how things will likely be seen by future historians and fans if things stay as they are. But there's a chance for some big changes to that with the upcoming fights.

What would your take be if AJ fights and beats Wilder?
What if Usyk actually does defeat Fury? What if he does so twice, even by controversial decision? And then what if he decides to defend against Wilder, and Wilder knocks him out? I don't consider any of those in the realm of likely possibilities, but they could all happen. Zhang will have to get his shot at some point as well. Heavyweight being what it is, we'll probably see the rematch between Usyk and Fury be for only 2-3 belts. Looks likely we'll see Hrgovic v Wallin for IBF. Where will ZZ fit in?

After so many delays, I'm actually finally excited to see how this era of heavies shakes out.

Me too. And I agree that it isnt over until it's over, and this era definately has some big, unfinished business to conduct. Upsets and failed predictions are a HUGE part of why we like combat sports. Shoot; by the time the dust settles on this gen, everything I've written could be upside down.

[billeau2]

I'm an a great admirer of Anthony Joshua and his career work. I support him as a merited Hall-of-Famer.

However, knowing more than a bit about how tenuous big fight negotiations can be, and how trepidations are ever present in the management of high value stars; I ingore claims about the practice of "Ducking" made by bloggers, promoters, credentialed writers and certainly board posters.

What I know with certainty however; is that between January 17, 2015 and June 01, 2019, a period of four and a half years, there were THREE undefeated top three ranked fighters each claiming to be the Heavyweight Champion of the World.

(Joshua 04-09-16 to 06-01-19, Fury 11-28-15 to Current, Wilder 01-17-15 to 02-22-20).

I know also that each of the three did things, such as winning the true Linial title in decisive fashion (Fury), or making a boatload of highlight reel KO title defenses (Wilder) or unifying belts and meeting perhaps the best quality of opposition (Joshua).
Inso doing, each one forged a sterling reputaion and created an era far, far better than the one that proceeded it (The Klitschkos era).

The ONLY thing remaining to be done, then; was for the three title holders to FIGHT EACH OTHER.
Perfectly doable, as this has been done before with the three starts of an era battling it out ala Frazier, Ali and Foreman (+Norton) or Leonard, Duran and Hearns (+Hagler).

But sometimes, circumstances like global pandemic or unexpected losses to underdogs can get in the way of a perfect plan.

For Tyson Fury and Deontay wilder; Nothing got in their way.
They had it out in HISTORIC FASHION!

In recent times, Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Lennox Lewis, Wladimir Klitschko; each one an all-time great; have lost to lesser fighters, and badly.
But as of now, that has never happened to either Tyson Fury or Deontay Wilder, even once.

But it has happened to Anthony Joshua. Three times, in fact.
Indeed, Joshua remains the only heavyweight that Oleksandr Usyk has ever looked good against.
But more importantly; within that circle of three long term undefeated champions, Fury and Wilder stepped up against each other; not once, but three times!

Joshua never did get up against them, being stunned by lesser fighters.

And fair or not, history is going to remember Tyson Fury and Deontay Wilder as the leaders of this tremendous era of Billions; with Anthony Joshua a clear measure behind them, regardless of the impassioned musings of the posting fans.

So why is this right, and why is this wrong?

Levels to the game. History tends to make the Anthony Joshuas in boxing into eagles... For what that is worth...

Joshua has two aspects that imo hold him down. He seemed to have the Klitsko curse, in that he was blessed with talent beyond measure, but always seemed fragile, unable to really engage and leave it in the ring... Klitsko learned how to cheat well, courtesy of Stewart, and still never avenged his loss to Sanders. Joshua always had that veneer of something hard but crackable... In addition Joshua comes from across the pond. same sort of situation, even Lewis was never "hard" the way many American fighters were considered tough and ready to die in the ring. Whether this just be image, or fact, lewis found a way around it, Joshua just hasn't. Alas he becomes another Frank Bruno. Watching Bruno go down from the Witherspoon onslaught is kind of like watching an abridged version of Joshua getting beat by Ruiz.

Thus, while most boxing fans would say Joshua can do much more in the ring than Wilder, nobody in their right mind would pick Joshua to stop Wilder from sleeping him... and I would have to agree.

[Zaroku]

Me too. And I agree that it isnt over until it's over, and this era definately has some big, unfinished business to conduct. Upsets and failed predictions are a HUGE part of why we like combat sports. Shoot; by the time the dust settles on this gen, everything I've written could be upside down.

I am jealous of his physique

butler want a cast mold of his chorizo
- mangera — radiator hose


I like Lennox Lewis much more!

I want some American person to be top dawg

now we got Russians Ukrainians and Chinese dudes kicking azx

I wish we had a bigger David tuair a kut Andy Ruiz to bring home the bacon

[The D3vil]

You're right,.

All of this is on Eddie Hearn.

He played games with Fury when Fury was down bad, so now Fury plays games with Hearn & Joshua

Hearn wanted to squeeze every ounce of value out of Joshua before he fought Wilder, even turning down $50 million for a fight. \\

The only thing you're wrong about is Usyk.

He dominated Dubois. He won virtually every moment of their fight & them stopped him, with the exception of that low-blow, that the English muffins swear had Usyk "out".

[Toffee]

So why is this right, and why is this wrong?

Plenty of it is right... but there is also some rewriting of history and a few things that are plain wrong

Firstly, the period stated.

Fury became champion in November 2015.
Joshua became champion in April 2016.

And I think you'd be hard pushed to claim Fury existed as a proposition between November 2015 and the point when he first fought Wilder in December 2018.

Basically, the period wasn't four and a half years. It was 6 months. There really wasn't an overlap.

Secondly, nothing would stop them? Well plenty did. Their trilogy took over 3 years during which time there was no option for anyone else of note to fight them.. a point proven when Joshua signed to fight Fury only for the rematch to get in the way, and Wilder also acknowledged he went with Fury over Joshua's offer.

As for credit to both of them? Well I would argue that it was only Wilder who actually had the choice at the start. And the guy he chose wasn't an "undefeated top three ranked fighter". He was a guy ranked 8th by TBRB after a points win over Francesco Pianeta.

Which bit of my post is right and which bit is wrong?

[Marchegiano]

Nailed it.

Nothing to add or detract, this OP is perfect.

[juggernaut666]

Nailed it.

Nothing to add or detract, this OP is perfect.

You sound like the OP very deluded most the time same type of posting style ? Hmmm

Anyway most what he said isn’t true so that further says it all . Lol

[juggernaut666]

You're right,.

All of this is on Eddie Hearn.

He played games with Fury when Fury was down bad, so now Fury plays games with Hearn & Joshua

Hearn wanted to squeeze every ounce of value out of Joshua before he fought Wilder, even turning down $50 million for a fight. \\

The only thing you're wrong about is Usyk.

He dominated Dubois. He won virtually every moment of their fight & them stopped him, with the exception of that low-blow, that the English muffins swear had Usyk "out".

Fury cried when Hearn offered him a 3 fight fight contract including Kaufman, Kuzmin and Whyte as his comeback fights stating he was being set up by to tough of fights to avoid any Joshua one ? Huh ?

Fury then decides to fight lower ranked guys anyway and fight Wilder for much less making a pact to freeze him out where even Warren is caught saying it will be a trilogy at some point before any rematch is even discussed.

How is this Hearns fault he gave Fury the offer first and even gave him a flat fee afterwards that FURY asked for and Furys response was he wanted 60% to fight Joshua the champion ?

Fury is the king of wiggling out of fights he doesn’t want that’s the only proven here . Lol