This Era has a solid No. 2 Heavyweight - And it Ain't Anthony Joshua!

[kafkod]

call BS on that. You hear that "Joshua has fought better opposition" all the time, but its never the truth. I like AJ just fine, an exceptional Heavyweight. 3rd best of his era if he gets past Oleksander Usyk in the rematch (Arguably the 4th best if he doesn't). But the idea that he's had a better career than Deontay Wilder is a MYTH.
Apply some objective science, it trumps opinions and impressions Every Day of the week:

Here is the Data:
Points awarded to the quality of an opponent at the time of their fight with the respective champions (Title Claimants).
On a scale of 1-10 (One is a terrible fighter/Ten Is Hall of fame-prime of career level Champion):

Joshua Resume:

Matt Skelton, 28-8-0, Long faded former fringe contender, K-1 contender........4 points

Kingpin Johnson, 29-6-1, Gate keeper, non-contender.......................5 points

Gary Cornish, 21-0-0, Domestic prospect, non-contender...................5 points

Dillian Whyte, 16-0-0, Prospect in development, would emerge later as a contender......8 points

Charles Martin, 23-0-1, Prospect in development, fortunate to be a beltholder............8 points

Dominic Breazeale, 17-0-0, Prospect in development, fringe contender.....................6 points

Eric Molina, 25-3-0, Gate keeper, non-contender............................5 points

Wladamir Klitschko, 64-4-0, Ex-champion defeated by Fury, Retired, 41 years old.......9 points

Carlos Takam, 35-3-1, Dangerious fringe contender........................................7 points

Joseph Parker, 24-0-0, Top 5 contender, beltholder, would later disappoint........9 points

Alexander Povetkin, 34-1-0, Longtime top contender. Slightly past prime at 39............8 points

Andy Ruiz Jr., 32-1-0, Solid fringe contender ranked just outside top 10. .......8 points LOSS

Andy Ruiz Jr. II, 33-1-0, Fat, lathargic in the rematch......................8 points

Kubrat Pulev, 28-1-0, Another Longtime top contender. Past prime at 39............8 points

Oleksandr Usyk, 18-0-0, Cruiserweight unifier, untested at heavyweight...............9 points LOSS


Sub total – Quality of Opposition.................90 Total Points


Career building opponents:

Average ranking of Joshua's other 11 opponents.......................3 points

Bonus Points awarded for the sheer number of those early/lesser opponents............3

Grand total – Quality of Opposition.................96 Total Points

Weighted value – Point deductions for losses (Opponent value x severity of loss/Informed subjective):

(-8 points for Ruiz Jr I)
(-8 points for Usyk)
Sub-Total: -16 Points

Final Score minus losses: 80 Career Points for Quality of opposition value.










Wilder Resume

Kelvin Price, 13-0-0, Fellow prospect, non-contender...............4 points

Audley Harrison, 31-6-0, Long faded former fringe contender, Olympian......4 points

Malik Scott, 36-1-1, Fellow prospect, non-contender...............5 points

Bermane Stivern I, 24-1-1, World ranked title holder in prime............7 points

Eric Molina, 23-2-0, Gate keeper, non-contender............................5 points

Johann Duhaupas, 32-2-0, Top 15 ranked fringe contender............6 points

Artur Szpilka, 20-1-0, Lower regarded fringe contender, later disappointed..........5 points

Chris Arreola, 36-4-1, Longtime contender, still near prime...........6 points

Gerald Washington, 18-0-1, Newly emerged contender.................6 points

Bermane Stivern II, 25-2-1, World ranked former title holder............6 points

Luis Ortiz I, 28-0-0, Top ranked world title contender....................9 points

Tyson Fury I, 27-0-0, Undefeated linial (actual) World Champion, unification......10 points

Dominic Breazeale, 20-1-0, Contemporary contender in 2nd title shot.............6 points

Luis Ortiz II, 31-1-0, Top ranked world title contender in rematch....................8 points

Tyson Fury II, 29-0-1, Undefeated linial (actual) World Champion, unification......10 points LOSS

Tyson Fury III, 30-0-1, Undefeated linial (actual) World Champion......10 points LOSS

Sub total – Quality of Opposition.................87 Total Points

Career building opponents:

Average ranking of Wilder's other 29 opponents.......................3 points

Bonus Points awarded for the sheer number of those early/lesser opponents...................5


Grand total – Quality of Opposition.................95 Total Points

Weighted value – Point deductions for losses (Opponent value x severity of loss/Informed subjective):

(-7 points for Fury II)
(-6 points for Fury III)
Sub-Total: -13 Points

Final Score minus losses: 82 Career Points for Quality of opposition value.



Conclusion:
Deontay Wilder's career opponents earn him 82 points, while Anthony Joshua's earn him only 80. This fan-friendly narrative that claims that “Wilder has fought bums” and Joshua has "fought better contenders" is inaccurate. The reality is Wilder has fought better opposition than Joshua has in the professional ranks; and has rendered better result against them; and any counter opinion is simply delusion.

To Joshua's fans; Remember..........................Facts don't care about your feelings.
What you're reading now, is nothing but the facts.
If anyone can convincingly argue ANY of the merit values assigned to any of the fighters listed, I'm all ears. If you can't do that, or choose not to; the question of Wilder vs. Joshua's total Quality of opposition has it's logically arrived at answer.

What I read there is a mixture of facts and your own subjective feelings about those facts.

And I'm baffled as to why you seem to think that either Wilder or Joshua are number 2 in the heavyweight division. They both lost their last fights. So logically, the 2 men who beat them should be 1 and 2 in the division.

[kafkod]

I wonder where Usyk would rate using his point system ?

I wonder where Usyk would rate using his point system ?

His system is too subjective for me to even have a clue about that.

I can't figure out why he seems to think number 2 is between Wilder and AJ, considering they both lost their last fights to undefeated opponents.

[PRINCEKOOL]

Your misleading the actual events .

Fury fought Wilder 3 times . Only one of those fights was he actually fully prepared and it was disasterous for Wilder .

No one said the other fights were easy ,partly bc if Fury’s not really on point he can be damaged because hes highly overatted to what he’s made out to be but let’s not confuse that and how many rounds he coasted to winning , it was in fact the biggest landslide boxing’s ever seen for a trilogy and in fact was seen as dominating .

Fury was fully prepared for all the fights.

Now you are changing your opinion on the trilogy. Deep down you know it was not a easy trilogy for Fury.

There is no way 'Easy' is the correct description for the effort Fury had to put in to end that rivalry.

Dominating, easy, landslide, these descriptive words are out of place mate.

I know you don't like Wilder for some strange reason, but you are treating him and his efforts? The same away people mock and dismiss Anthony Joshua.

Check yourself.

[kafkod]

We will know a lot after Usyk and Joshua fight again, but some of the same issues will repeat. These notions of how to determine the quality of opposition where very subjective statements are used to draw conclusions.

For example, the fact that Ortiz is "over 40" should be carefully balanced against his performance. Many people here thought Martin would destroy Ortiz lol. The people often turn around and Assume that based on the fact that Ortiz is over 40, Martin should be denigrated to some scrap heap. Is it really relevant that Ortiz is over 40? or is the important point that he beat Martin?

There are many ways to approach creating an order, as long as the criteria applies to all fighters equally and are not simply fanciful notions.

We actually have an order that was created for us over nearly 200 years of boxing's evolution from unlicensed, bare knuckle prize fighting to to a legally ratified worldwide combat sport with universally recognised rules and titles. Having multiple titles in each division muddies the waters when it comes to determining who is number 1 at any given time. But the fact that all the heavyweight title belts, including the Ring Magazine, are held by the same 2 men right now narrows the field considerably when it comes to determining who is number 2. It's either Fury or Usyk. Wilder and AJ shouldn't even be in the conversation.

[billeau2]

We actually have an order that was created for us over nearly 200 years of boxing's evolution from unlicensed, bare knuckle prize fighting to to a legally ratified worldwide combat sport with universally recognised rules and titles. Having multiple titles in each division muddies the waters when it comes to determining who is number 1 at any given time. But the fact that all the heavyweight title belts, including the Ring Magazine, are held by the same 2 men right now narrows the field considerably when it comes to determining who is number 2. It's either Fury or Usyk. Wilder and AJ shouldn't even be in the conversation.

It has to do with the culmultive effect of other fights I would imagine. Usyk only beat Chisora and Anthony.

[hugh grant]

Fury is no 1 of era as he beat wilder? So what happens when wilder loses his next fight and Josh also destroys wilder down the line?
let's face it fury will unretire to beat usyk/winner. He has to as it's the only way. Fury can stay retired if he wants but it makes no sense if being best of era is important.
the wilder win is good but I fear the win will diminish the more who beat wilder

[QueensburyRules]

We actually have an order that was created for us over nearly 200 years of boxing's evolution from unlicensed, bare knuckle prize fighting to to a legally ratified worldwide combat sport with universally recognised rules and titles. Having multiple titles in each division muddies the waters when it comes to determining who is number 1 at any given time. But the fact that all the heavyweight title belts, including the Ring Magazine, are held by the same 2 men right now narrows the field considerably when it comes to determining who is number 2. It's either Fury or Usyk. Wilder and AJ shouldn't even be in the conversation.

- - AJ the guy who unified and defended the titles that drug cheat Fury cast asunder.

Drug Cheat Fury in the 6 cumulative years of holding the Ring title has 2 of the most measly defenses of any heavy and in history, ie U been knocked out of the conversation since birth, I mean, what grade they put U back in this year?

[El_Mero]

Being knocked down 4-5 times is not dominating a opponent.

Being BRUTALLY stopped in 2 of 3 fights while barely scraping by in the gift draw Wilder received in the 1st, IS being dominated

[REDEEMER]

Fury was fully prepared for all the fights.

Now you are changing your opinion on the trilogy. Deep down you know it was not a easy trilogy for Fury.

There is no way 'Easy' is the correct description for the effort Fury had to put in to end that rivalry.

Dominating, easy, landslide, these descriptive words are out of place mate.

I know you don't like Wilder for some strange reason, but you are treating him and his efforts? The same away people mock and dismiss Anthony Joshua.

Check yourself.

No he wasn’t that’s all lies .

Fury was definitely not fully prepared the first fight and the third fight with kid problems and a sketchy training cAmp .


Not sure why you post lies all the time on here but it what keeps you from being taking seriously on here ,you ruin your own reputation on here all for the times which is every good post you do about 3 bad ones ……check myself ? No you have to do that multiple posters told you you don’t make sense bc you don’t .

[PRINCEKOOL]

No he wasn’t that’s all lies .

Fury was definitely not fully prepared the first fight and the third fight with kid problems and a sketchy training cAmp .


Not sure why you post lies all the time on here but it what keeps you from being taking seriously on here ,you ruin your own reputation on here all for the times which is every good post you do about 3 bad ones ……check myself ? No you have to do that multiple posters told you you don’t make sense bc you don’t .

Explain to me why he was not fully prepared? Tyson Fury was fully prepared, he had a full training camp and a few comeback fights.

He was not in the his best condition, but that is just how things are sometimes in sport.

The fight was also a draw. Fury was knocked down twice, and backed up all night. You do not win world titles like that.

You have a issue with Deontay Wilder, the same why people have a issue with Anthony Joshua. You mock and dismiss his achievements and efforts just like some people do against Joshua. You know what I am saying is correct, and you do not like it at all.

Just Check yourself, and everything will be alright..

That is all I have to say here to be honest mate.