This Era has a solid No. 2 Heavyweight - And it Ain't Anthony Joshua!

[Willow The Wisp]

call BS on that. You hear that "Joshua has fought better opposition" all the time, but its never the truth. I like AJ just fine, an exceptional Heavyweight. 3rd best of his era if he gets past Oleksander Usyk in the rematch (Arguably the 4th best if he doesn't). But the idea that he's had a better career than Deontay Wilder is a MYTH.
Apply some objective science, it trumps opinions and impressions Every Day of the week:

Here is the Data:
Points awarded to the quality of an opponent at the time of their fight with the respective champions (Title Claimants).
On a scale of 1-10 (One is a terrible fighter/Ten Is Hall of fame-prime of career level Champion):

Joshua Resume:

Matt Skelton, 28-8-0, Long faded former fringe contender, K-1 contender........4 points

Kingpin Johnson, 29-6-1, Gate keeper, non-contender.......................5 points

Gary Cornish, 21-0-0, Domestic prospect, non-contender...................5 points

Dillian Whyte, 16-0-0, Prospect in development, would emerge later as a contender......8 points

Charles Martin, 23-0-1, Prospect in development, fortunate to be a beltholder............8 points

Dominic Breazeale, 17-0-0, Prospect in development, fringe contender.....................6 points

Eric Molina, 25-3-0, Gate keeper, non-contender............................5 points

Wladamir Klitschko, 64-4-0, Ex-champion defeated by Fury, Retired, 41 years old.......9 points

Carlos Takam, 35-3-1, Dangerious fringe contender........................................7 points

Joseph Parker, 24-0-0, Top 5 contender, beltholder, would later disappoint........9 points

Alexander Povetkin, 34-1-0, Longtime top contender. Slightly past prime at 39............8 points

Andy Ruiz Jr., 32-1-0, Solid fringe contender ranked just outside top 10. .......8 points LOSS

Andy Ruiz Jr. II, 33-1-0, Fat, lathargic in the rematch......................8 points

Kubrat Pulev, 28-1-0, Another Longtime top contender. Past prime at 39............8 points

Oleksandr Usyk, 18-0-0, Cruiserweight unifier, untested at heavyweight...............9 points LOSS


Sub total – Quality of Opposition.................90 Total Points


Career building opponents:

Average ranking of Joshua's other 11 opponents.......................3 points

Bonus Points awarded for the sheer number of those early/lesser opponents............3

Grand total – Quality of Opposition.................96 Total Points

Weighted value – Point deductions for losses (Opponent value x severity of loss/Informed subjective):

(-8 points for Ruiz Jr I)
(-8 points for Usyk)
Sub-Total: -16 Points

Final Score minus losses: 80 Career Points for Quality of opposition value.










Wilder Resume

Kelvin Price, 13-0-0, Fellow prospect, non-contender...............4 points

Audley Harrison, 31-6-0, Long faded former fringe contender, Olympian......4 points

Malik Scott, 36-1-1, Fellow prospect, non-contender...............5 points

Bermane Stivern I, 24-1-1, World ranked title holder in prime............7 points

Eric Molina, 23-2-0, Gate keeper, non-contender............................5 points

Johann Duhaupas, 32-2-0, Top 15 ranked fringe contender............6 points

Artur Szpilka, 20-1-0, Lower regarded fringe contender, later disappointed..........5 points

Chris Arreola, 36-4-1, Longtime contender, still near prime...........6 points

Gerald Washington, 18-0-1, Newly emerged contender.................6 points

Bermane Stivern II, 25-2-1, World ranked former title holder............6 points

Luis Ortiz I, 28-0-0, Top ranked world title contender....................9 points

Tyson Fury I, 27-0-0, Undefeated linial (actual) World Champion, unification......10 points

Dominic Breazeale, 20-1-0, Contemporary contender in 2nd title shot.............6 points

Luis Ortiz II, 31-1-0, Top ranked world title contender in rematch....................8 points

Tyson Fury II, 29-0-1, Undefeated linial (actual) World Champion, unification......10 points LOSS

Tyson Fury III, 30-0-1, Undefeated linial (actual) World Champion......10 points LOSS

Sub total – Quality of Opposition.................87 Total Points

Career building opponents:

Average ranking of Wilder's other 29 opponents.......................3 points

Bonus Points awarded for the sheer number of those early/lesser opponents...................5


Grand total – Quality of Opposition.................95 Total Points

Weighted value – Point deductions for losses (Opponent value x severity of loss/Informed subjective):

(-7 points for Fury II)
(-6 points for Fury III)
Sub-Total: -13 Points

Final Score minus losses: 82 Career Points for Quality of opposition value.



Conclusion:
Deontay Wilder's career opponents earn him 82 points, while Anthony Joshua's earn him only 80. This fan-friendly narrative that claims that “Wilder has fought bums” and Joshua has "fought better contenders" is inaccurate. The reality is Wilder has fought better opposition than Joshua has in the professional ranks; and has rendered better result against them; and any counter opinion is simply delusion.

To Joshua's fans; Remember..........................Facts don't care about your feelings.
What you're reading now, is nothing but the facts.
If anyone can convincingly argue ANY of the merit values assigned to any of the fighters listed, I'm all ears. If you can't do that, or choose not to; the question of Wilder vs. Joshua's total Quality of opposition has it's logically arrived at answer.

[LeOoze]

******est thread i've ever read

[eco1]

call BS on that. You hear that "Joshua has fought better opposition" all the time, but its never the truth. I like AJ just fine, an exceptional Heavyweight. 3rd best of his era if he gets past Oleksander Usyk in the rematch (Arguably the 4th best if he doesn't). But the idea that he's had a better career than Deontay Wilder is a MYTH.
Apply some objective science, it trumps opinions and impressions Every Day of the week:

Here is the Data:
Points awarded to the quality of an opponent at the time of their fight with the respective champions (Title Claimants).
On a scale of 1-10 (One is a terrible fighter/Ten Is Hall of fame-prime of career level Champion):

Joshua Resume:

Matt Skelton, 28-8-0, Long faded former fringe contender, K-1 contender........4 points

Kingpin Johnson, 29-6-1, Gate keeper, non-contender.......................5 points

Gary Cornish, 21-0-0, Domestic prospect, non-contender...................5 points

Dillian Whyte, 16-0-0, Prospect in development, would emerge later as a contender......8 points

Charles Martin, 23-0-1, Prospect in development, fortunate to be a beltholder............8 points

Dominic Breazeale, 17-0-0, Prospect in development, fringe contender.....................6 points

Eric Molina, 25-3-0, Gate keeper, non-contender............................5 points

Wladamir Klitschko, 64-4-0, Ex-champion defeated by Fury, Retired, 41 years old.......9 points

Carlos Takam, 35-3-1, Dangerious fringe contender........................................7 points

Joseph Parker, 24-0-0, Top 5 contender, beltholder, would later disappoint........9 points

Alexander Povetkin, 34-1-0, Longtime top contender. Slightly past prime at 39............8 points

Andy Ruiz Jr., 32-1-0, Solid fringe contender ranked just outside top 10. .......8 points LOSS

Andy Ruiz Jr. II, 33-1-0, Fat, lathargic in the rematch......................8 points

Kubrat Pulev, 28-1-0, Another Longtime top contender. Past prime at 39............8 points

Oleksandr Usyk, 18-0-0, Cruiserweight unifier, untested at heavyweight...............9 points LOSS


Sub total – Quality of Opposition.................90 Total Points


Career building opponents:

Average ranking of Joshua's other 11 opponents.......................3 points

Bonus Points awarded for the sheer number of those early/lesser opponents............3

Grand total – Quality of Opposition.................96 Total Points

Weighted value – Point deductions for losses (Opponent value x severity of loss/Informed subjective):

(-8 points for Ruiz Jr I)
(-8 points for Usyk)
Sub-Total: -16 Points

Final Score minus losses: 80 Career Points for Quality of opposition value.










Wilder Resume

Kelvin Price, 13-0-0, Fellow prospect, non-contender...............4 points

Audley Harrison, 31-6-0, Long faded former fringe contender, Olympian......4 points

Malik Scott, 36-1-1, Fellow prospect, non-contender...............5 points

Bermane Stivern I, 24-1-1, World ranked title holder in prime............7 points

Eric Molina, 23-2-0, Gate keeper, non-contender............................5 points

Johann Duhaupas, 32-2-0, Top 15 ranked fringe contender............6 points

Artur Szpilka, 20-1-0, Lower regarded fringe contender, later disappointed..........5 points

Chris Arreola, 36-4-1, Longtime contender, still near prime...........6 points

Gerald Washington, 18-0-1, Newly emerged contender.................6 points

Bermane Stivern II, 25-2-1, World ranked former title holder............6 points

Luis Ortiz I, 28-0-0, Top ranked world title contender....................9 points

Tyson Fury I, 27-0-0, Undefeated linial (actual) World Champion, unification......10 points

Dominic Breazeale, 20-1-0, Contemporary contender in 2nd title shot.............6 points

Luis Ortiz II, 31-1-0, Top ranked world title contender in rematch....................8 points

Tyson Fury II, 29-0-1, Undefeated linial (actual) World Champion, unification......10 points LOSS

Tyson Fury III, 30-0-1, Undefeated linial (actual) World Champion......10 points LOSS

Sub total – Quality of Opposition.................87 Total Points

Career building opponents:

Average ranking of Wilder's other 29 opponents.......................3 points

Bonus Points awarded for the sheer number of those early/lesser opponents...................5


Grand total – Quality of Opposition.................95 Total Points

Weighted value – Point deductions for losses (Opponent value x severity of loss/Informed subjective):

(-7 points for Fury II)
(-6 points for Fury III)
Sub-Total: -13 Points

Final Score minus losses: 82 Career Points for Quality of opposition value.



Conclusion:
Deontay Wilder's career opponents earn him 82 points, while Anthony Joshua's earn him only 80. This fan-friendly narrative that claims that “Wilder has fought bums” and Joshua has "fought better contenders" is inaccurate. The reality is Wilder has fought better opposition than Joshua has in the professional ranks; and has rendered better result against them; and any counter opinion is simply delusion.

To Joshua's fans; Remember..........................Facts don't care about your feelings.
What you're reading now, is nothing but the facts.
If anyone can convincingly argue ANY of the merit values assigned to any of the fighters listed, I'm all ears. If you can't do that, or choose not to; the question of Wilder vs. Joshua's total Quality of opposition has it's logically arrived at answer.

LOLOLOL, what is this, LOL.
Who in hell gave you the .....to come up with this s h I t? AHahhahhahahhahahahhaha, LOL.

[Amir Imam]

You need to explain your point system before anyone takes this serious. Is this BoxRec point system?

[PRINCEKOOL]

No matter how hard people try, nobody can discredit Joshua's resume. Yes he has been beaten, but he avenged his loss to Ruiz Junior.

And if he beats Usyk in the rematch 'It will be the greatest Heavyweight win of the past 20 years'.

Usyk is at his peak, a Olympic Champion, Undisputed Cruiser weight World Champion, and current WBA, WBO, IBF & IBO World Heavyweight Champion.

That will be two super elite wins on Joshua's resume, which are Kiltschko & Usyk. Combined that with his resume of world class fighters, he will have the best resume in the heavyweight division.

This should not happen, but it can potentially happen. The reason why I say, that it should not happen is because 'Tyson Fury has all the ability to take on all comers, and deepen his resume' But as you all know, Fury is not concerned with such obligations.

[MONGOOSE66]

call BS on that. You hear that "Joshua has fought better opposition" all the time, but its never the truth. I like AJ just fine, an exceptional Heavyweight. 3rd best of his era if he gets past Oleksander Usyk in the rematch (Arguably the 4th best if he doesn't). But the idea that he's had a better career than Deontay Wilder is a MYTH.
Apply some objective science, it trumps opinions and impressions Every Day of the week:

Here is the Data:
Points awarded to the quality of an opponent at the time of their fight with the respective champions (Title Claimants).
On a scale of 1-10 (One is a terrible fighter/Ten Is Hall of fame-prime of career level Champion):

Joshua Resume:

Matt Skelton, 28-8-0, Long faded former fringe contender, K-1 contender........4 points

Kingpin Johnson, 29-6-1, Gate keeper, non-contender.......................5 points

Gary Cornish, 21-0-0, Domestic prospect, non-contender...................5 points

Dillian Whyte, 16-0-0, Prospect in development, would emerge later as a contender......8 points

Charles Martin, 23-0-1, Prospect in development, fortunate to be a beltholder............8 points

Dominic Breazeale, 17-0-0, Prospect in development, fringe contender.....................6 points

Eric Molina, 25-3-0, Gate keeper, non-contender............................5 points

Wladamir Klitschko, 64-4-0, Ex-champion defeated by Fury, Retired, 41 years old.......9 points

Carlos Takam, 35-3-1, Dangerious fringe contender........................................7 points

Joseph Parker, 24-0-0, Top 5 contender, beltholder, would later disappoint........9 points

Alexander Povetkin, 34-1-0, Longtime top contender. Slightly past prime at 39............8 points

Andy Ruiz Jr., 32-1-0, Solid fringe contender ranked just outside top 10. .......8 points LOSS

Andy Ruiz Jr. II, 33-1-0, Fat, lathargic in the rematch......................8 points

Kubrat Pulev, 28-1-0, Another Longtime top contender. Past prime at 39............8 points

Oleksandr Usyk, 18-0-0, Cruiserweight unifier, untested at heavyweight...............9 points LOSS


Sub total – Quality of Opposition.................90 Total Points


Career building opponents:

Average ranking of Joshua's other 11 opponents.......................3 points

Bonus Points awarded for the sheer number of those early/lesser opponents............3

Grand total – Quality of Opposition.................96 Total Points

Weighted value – Point deductions for losses (Opponent value x severity of loss/Informed subjective):

(-8 points for Ruiz Jr I)
(-8 points for Usyk)
Sub-Total: -16 Points

Final Score minus losses: 80 Career Points for Quality of opposition value.










Wilder Resume

Kelvin Price, 13-0-0, Fellow prospect, non-contender...............4 points

Audley Harrison, 31-6-0, Long faded former fringe contender, Olympian......4 points

Malik Scott, 36-1-1, Fellow prospect, non-contender...............5 points

Bermane Stivern I, 24-1-1, World ranked title holder in prime............7 points

Eric Molina, 23-2-0, Gate keeper, non-contender............................5 points

Johann Duhaupas, 32-2-0, Top 15 ranked fringe contender............6 points

Artur Szpilka, 20-1-0, Lower regarded fringe contender, later disappointed..........5 points

Chris Arreola, 36-4-1, Longtime contender, still near prime...........6 points

Gerald Washington, 18-0-1, Newly emerged contender.................6 points

Bermane Stivern II, 25-2-1, World ranked former title holder............6 points

Luis Ortiz I, 28-0-0, Top ranked world title contender....................9 points

Tyson Fury I, 27-0-0, Undefeated linial (actual) World Champion, unification......10 points

Dominic Breazeale, 20-1-0, Contemporary contender in 2nd title shot.............6 points

Luis Ortiz II, 31-1-0, Top ranked world title contender in rematch....................8 points

Tyson Fury II, 29-0-1, Undefeated linial (actual) World Champion, unification......10 points LOSS

Tyson Fury III, 30-0-1, Undefeated linial (actual) World Champion......10 points LOSS

Sub total – Quality of Opposition.................87 Total Points

Career building opponents:

Average ranking of Wilder's other 29 opponents.......................3 points

Bonus Points awarded for the sheer number of those early/lesser opponents...................5


Grand total – Quality of Opposition.................95 Total Points

Weighted value – Point deductions for losses (Opponent value x severity of loss/Informed subjective):

(-7 points for Fury II)
(-6 points for Fury III)
Sub-Total: -13 Points

Final Score minus losses: 82 Career Points for Quality of opposition value.



Conclusion:
Deontay Wilder's career opponents earn him 82 points, while Anthony Joshua's earn him only 80. This fan-friendly narrative that claims that “Wilder has fought bums” and Joshua has "fought better contenders" is inaccurate. The reality is Wilder has fought better opposition than Joshua has in the professional ranks; and has rendered better result against them; and any counter opinion is simply delusion.

To Joshua's fans; Remember..........................Facts don't care about your feelings.
What you're reading now, is nothing but the facts.
If anyone can convincingly argue ANY of the merit values assigned to any of the fighters listed, I'm all ears. If you can't do that, or choose not to; the question of Wilder vs. Joshua's total Quality of opposition has it's logically arrived at answer.

Someone needs a girlfriend.

[Sun_Tzu]

Thats some of the dumbest **** Ive ever seen. Joshua is head an shoulders above Wilder as afar as resume. Wilder was a one trick pony that was exposed three fights in a row. Joshua may never be anything more than what he is now but what he is and was is a unified champion with better opposition than Wilder. Wilder never faced the class Josh did, get over it.

[Earl-Hickey]

Wilders resume is absoloute dog **** and we all know it.

You can think he's number 2 in your fantasy fights if you want, fine, he probably beats this AJ tbh (so do most people) but his actual achievements aren't very good, at all, and his 10 defence run was absolutely dire.

Wilders fanboys are obsessed with proving he's #2, well he sure is a giant, steaming #2 I give you that.

Wilders career is this

Bums

Old ass Ortiz with high blood pressure

Cherry picked obese, drug addled fury and got his ass whooped 3x

Thats literally it, why would anyone worship this guy apart from for racial reasons or because they pathologically hate matchroom and so build up any rivals to their fighters (which is pathetic)

If Wilder really is #2 of "this generation" then that's a dire indictment.

[Marchegiano]

You know you did something right when people cry so vehemently.

It's really as simple as Joshua needs to fight Fury or Wilder.

[Willow The Wisp]

You know you did something right when people cry so vehemently.

It's really as simple as Joshua needs to fight Fury or Wilder.

This is the first intelligent response to these carefully laid out facts. The others all came from silly, simple people who have opinions, have a right to their opinions, but are not equipped to parse information and dirive reasonable conclusions. You are born with certain abilities or you're not. That's insulting to them, and I'm sorry for that. But the thread is NOT about Opinions, It's strictly about gathering, presenting and delicately presenting empirical Facts. Laid out so that there is no need for Debate. This is Not a debate, its a curriculum. You either drink and know more, or you don't.