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How is Canelo going to stop a takedown? and what is he going to do once hes on the ground? strength and size can compensate up to a point but with that level of grappling disparity 25lbs and a few inches of height/reach is not nearly enough to just brute strength your way out of things. If we were talking Fury rather than Canelo then yeah sure i'd agree, hes big and strong enough to find a way out of it against a 42 year old manlet like Faber. But even then I think an elite grappler like Khabib who is 5'10 and fights at 155 but walks around at 175-180ish would beat Fury, although it'd be messy. Canelo against someone his own size would just be ridiculous, the top guy near his weight class right now is Usman for ****s sake, an absolute brick ****house national wrestling champion and BJJ black belt.
If he was that confident why not kickboxing rules? or 4oz gloves? or a set number of boxing rounds then switch to MMA rules?Last edited by TMLT87; 10-28-2021, 06:28 AM.Comment
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Great topic!
It's quite interesting. Right now I consider myself a big fan of boxing, and my personal background is kickboxing. I did some Tae Kwon Do but it was a tad one dimensional for me.
On one hand, the people here who say boxing is one dimensional are actually correct. Boxing, as a combat sport, is all about mastery of upper body strikes. In order to be a Floyd, Manny, Canelo, or even Fury, you need to be REALLY good and focus on being able to split the hair so to speak.
On the flip side, Kickboxing and other martial arts, and now to the greater extent MMA, really is about being a more complete all around fighter. The time you have, you have to be able to split it between being a boxer, being able to kick and of course grapple. Being a master in all 3 is quite difficult and this mixed approach is really what is unique and what brings the entertainment.
People bringing up Connor vs Floyd, it's really quite ******... you got Connor who is mediocre at best in terms of boxing, now does not have 2 out of 3 forms of attack that he can use... no grappling and no kicks... going up against the guy who is perhaps the most proficient defensive boxer.... wtf did anyone expect there?
A Good/Decent MMA fighter will never succeed against a GOOD/Decent boxer.
Now... take a boxer and take an MMA fighter and have them do kickboxing, now you are talking and watch how quickly that boxer gets wasted the moment they have to start defending against kicks.
It's funny, as someone who was training in kickboxing, I scream at the TV watching MMA when they throw lazy kicks or punches and are surprised they get taken down or countered. And I am totally screaming... "wow, I can kick their ass...." Until I see the fight going to the ground at which point I am saying.... "yeah.... my ass would be beat pretty severely here." lol.
Which I suppose is why I consider myself a boxing fan... because you really can be a technician with boxing where small details make the difference in the fight. With MMA, the results are far more random as there are a lot of different ways a fight can go, based on whether it is standing or on the mat. (and why you don't see many 30-0 MMA fighters versus boxing.)
If Canelo or Floyd would also have to spread their time working on their kicks and grapples, they would not be the masters of boxing that they are, nor would their records be the same.Comment
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It has nothing to do with confidence its a Bank robbery . Even if you have 1 hour to leave the bank you are not going to suggest well this Bank heist is a breeze even though i have an hour to kill i dont think i need a getaway car let me carry these sacks of money on my back as i want to make it a little harder for myself.
You know Floyd's modus operandi;- Secure the bag, there is nothing to prove. You need to direct your questions at him not me. As an observer i saw a MMA guy in his prime punch himself outfrom the 6 round and from then on look at the clock at the beginning of every round and make a complete fool of himself. MMA Fans actually thought he would win. My MMA friends were calling me after the 2nd round and shouting "Floyd will not make it to the 6th round"Last edited by Noelanthony; 10-28-2021, 06:48 AM.Comment
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How will he stop a takedown, by being physical way stronger and punching him in the head like has never been hit before, when in punching range how is Faber going to stop the knockout following the first big punch he is hit with, Canelo is fast punching and a tank build, with a little training he could learn enough to get himself into punching range, a 25lb lighter 42 yr old guy is not just going to take Canelo down, boxers like Canelo are extremely strong and planted, in 4oz he could hit Faber anywhere and really hurt him.
As I said same weight that's a different deal but we not talking that we are talking 25lbs lighter, old and retired, like I said Id bet you a swag of real money on it, would be interesting to see if you would take the bet.
Just out of interest what method of winning do you think wins the most MMA fights,, Foot kicks, Punches, Submissions, I think it would be punches followed by submissions.Comment
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So you expected the 25lb lighter Floyd to put his hands up and walk Connor down laughing at him and taking the few punches he did like they were nothing, I bet you expected Floyd to dance around and make him look ****** not be a one step forward terminator.
That one line actually diminished your entire post because it brought the post into perspective.
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From what I remember MMA forums were pretty much unanimously saying Conor would lose. Maybe some absolute casuals thought otherwise but thats how casuals are regarding any sport.
I think Conor gave an okay account of himself. He firstly had the balls to go out of his element (I respect Shields for doing the same) then he lasted a long time, never touched the canvas and landed plenty. If a boxer went to MMA against a guy at Floyds level and gave an equivalent performance i'd be very impressed.
Hes always had a **** gas tank though, I agree. Like I said he sniped people in MMA, usually pretty early, hes not built for volume over a bunch of rounds.
Its simple, he isnt in punching range. Hes in kicking range, then hes shooting in below punching range, then half a second later hes in grappling range. How easy do you think it is to land a clean fight ending punch on someone in this situation really?
The only viable shot is an uppercut and it would come from an awkward position and need to have godly timing and accuracy to actually have an effect. Even knee counters only rarely work and thats a more powerful shot thats more poised to land properly.
Punches, but you're missing the point. MMA is much more stand up focused now than it used to be, because the overall level of grappling increased to the point where it isnt an easily exploitable hole in peoples games anymore. Going for takedowns takes a lot of energy and compromises your position a lot more than throwing a punch, if you know your opponent is fairly evenly matched with you both in the grappling and striking department (which is much more the case now than it once was) you will probably chose to strike for that reason. An obvious example of this was the first Usman/Covington fight, two elite wrestlers who usually use their wrestling to win, but then had an entirely stand up fight with each other.Comment
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To say he isn't in punching range is to say he has never been punched by guys his own size, did they ever knock him down, what makes you so sure Canelo cannot get a punch off on him when you admit punching is the number one winning deal in MMA, but your selling the best boxers cant get a punch off when they a bigger and stronger everywhere, he can stop him with any single power punch from a short uppercut to a rip, you really underestimate the difference 25lb would make. Faber would not be the bully and Canelo would be one punch deadly 6 inches inside where Faber could kick him from, adding to the weight is the age I could see Canelo stepping right into him and just wiping him out in the first flurry scramble whatever, just way too much power.
From what I remember MMA forums were pretty much unanimously saying Conor would lose. Maybe some absolute casuals thought otherwise but thats how casuals are regarding any sport.
I think Conor gave an okay account of himself. He firstly had the balls to go out of his element (I respect Shields for doing the same) then he lasted a long time, never touched the canvas and landed plenty. If a boxer went to MMA against a guy at Floyds level and gave an equivalent performance i'd be very impressed.
Hes always had a **** gas tank though, I agree. Like I said he sniped people in MMA, usually pretty early, hes not built for volume over a bunch of rounds.
Its simple, he isnt in punching range. Hes in kicking range, then hes shooting in below punching range, then half a second later hes in grappling range. How easy do you think it is to land a clean fight ending punch on someone in this situation really?
The only viable shot is an uppercut and it would come from an awkward position and need to have godly timing and accuracy to actually have an effect. Even knee counters only rarely work and thats a more powerful shot thats more poised to land properly.
Punches, but you're missing the point. MMA is much more stand up focused now than it used to be, because the overall level of grappling increased to the point where it isnt an easily exploitable hole in peoples games anymore. Going for takedowns takes a lot of energy and compromises your position a lot more than throwing a punch, if you know your opponent is fairly evenly matched with you both in the grappling and striking department (which is much more the case now than it once was) you will probably chose to strike for that reason. An obvious example of this was the first Usman/Covington fight, two elite wrestlers who usually use their wrestling to win, but then had an entirely stand up fight with each other.
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MMA sucks. Full of bums playing grab ass and throwing hands with zero coordination. Mfers need to pipe down.
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