Why does a Boxer have to go out on his shield?

[flem1]

Isreal Vazques quit against Rafael Marquez and what happened? The media said he was finished, idiot max Kellerman called him a quitter, and yet the guy right now is a top 10 PFP fighter and the ring champion in his division plus he beat Marquez twice in two rematches. So much for what fans and the media knows about a boxers heart.

Vasquez wouldn't have been the first boxer to fight with a broken nose yet what did his decision to quit do for his career? It probably extended it and saved him a few braincells.

Well let's compare..

Israel Vazquez did quit because he can't breathe properly and you can see his nose was badly broken. But in the whole 7 rounds of that fight, he was really trying to get the W without even a hint of quitting. He fought his heart out but it was evident that breathing is getting harder for him and it forced him quit on his stool.

Victor Ortiz started to wilt when Maidana recovered from 2 KDs and was nailing him with rights. And what did Ortiz do? He became tentative as the fight wore on to the sixth and just flatly waved his hand off at the referee signaling "No Mas". I wouldn't even call it a smart decision since he was ahead on the cards and it looked like he was still capable of fighting back but he code not to.

[pistol whip]

Yes but he is not an entertainer, he is not being paid TO risk his life, where as a fighter is.

You cant compare industry's. its a completely different ball game, its like comparing a Soccer player to janitor, its not the same.

Ortiz is being hit too hard by critics but at the end of the day its like i said, people dont like quitters in life in general, even more so in Sportsmen where success is often determined by application and desire. People want to be associated with winners etc.


Rightly or wrongly its the way it is.

And thats the exact train of thought that i am challanging. Are our lives that sad that we have to live vicariously through these men? I am simply trying to reject that idea because i for one refuse to somehow bring meaning to my life thru the accomplishments of complete strangers who will never know i exist ever in their lives.

[Dynamite Kid]

nah man this isn't a shot at boxing because i love boxing and MMA equally. in fact i'm a fan of all combat sports from Greco-roman wrestling, Kick Boxing, russian Sambo, whatever! im just a fan of fighting! but it's just upsets me that only my beloved boxing is the only of these sports where the fans feel entitled and robbed if the fighter doesn't go out and mame himself for the fans. all these old time fighters did all that from the 1920's all the way to the 1970's and what did it get them? Broke and ******ed thats what it got most of them. it just saddens me that boxing fans are so ass backwards that they think this is an acceptable form of thinking among grown adults.

It has nothing to do with going out there and getting brutalized or you wont get any respect. You are exasperating the situation to get your point across, going from one extreme to another.

People dont care if Ortiz had fought a boring fight and won, they only have a problem because he did not give it a 100%, he could of lost a low contact fight but been outboxed and given it a 100% and it would not have tarnished his rep.

I think the problem people have is he did not give 100%.

[pistol whip]

Well let's compare..

Israel Vazquez did quit because he can't breathe properly and you can see his nose was badly broken. But in the whole 7 rounds of that fight, he was really trying to get the W without even a hint of quitting. He fought his heart out but it was evident that breathing is getting harder for him and it forced him quit on his stool.

Victor Ortiz started to wilt when Maidana recovered from 2 KDs and was nailing him with rights. And what did Ortiz do? He became tentative as the fight wore on to the sixth and just flatly waved his hand off at the referee signaling "No Mas". I wouldn't even call it a smart decision since he was ahead on the cards and it looked like he was still capable of fighting back but he code not to.

oh I see there are diffrent degrees of quitting now. which means nothing and is nothing more than cherry picking when a person is a quitter. If you are gonna sit on your couch, getting fat, and call some athlete whos acheived a 100 times more things in his life than you ever will at least have the balls to lump all the quitters together.

[pistol whip]

It has nothing to do with going out there and getting brutalized or you wont get any respect. You are exasperating the situation to get your point across, going from one extreme to another.

People dont care if Ortiz had fought a boring fight and won, they only have a problem because he did not give it a 100%, he could of lost a low contact fight but been outboxed and given it a 100% and it would not have tarnished his rep.

I think the problem people have is he did not give 100%.

Which means what? Again how many of us give 100% at everything we do in our profession? Sometimes we slack off and pay the price, but that doesn't give anyone the right to demand that you injure yourself either. if Ortiz was mentally beaten already imagine what would of happened to him had he carried on. he probobly would have been Knocked cold and for what so a couple of boxing fans and media types could have said "well at least he gave it his all.

makes no ***ing sense!!

[Dynamite Kid]

And thats the exact train of thought that i am challanging. Are our lives that sad that we have to live vicariously through these men? I am simply trying to reject that idea because i for one refuse to somehow bring meaning to my life thru the accomplishments of complete strangers who will never know i exist ever in their lives.

Well rightly or wrongly that is mindset of people in general and it aint likely to change.


The ironic thing is................Ortiz would be chastised more for losing the fight rather than quitting, which exasperates the notion that " bring meaning to my life thru the accomplishments of complete strangers"

However him quitting in the fight gives them more of a stick to beat him with.

My fav fighters are Norris,Trinidad etc, they are not my favourite because they were the most successful, but because of how they laid it on the line for me to be entertained.

But by the same token we are all the same because i would not support a guy who had a 100-98 record would i ? neither would you, would you?

So you and i are know better than these folks who think "bring meaning to my life thru the accomplishments of complete strangers"

[pistol whip]

why do you come on this forum if your so over-sensitive and just going to get upset when everybody disagrees with you?

It's a heated debate not an argument. It's a healthy form of expression and most adults practice it.

[pistol whip]

Well rightly or wrongly that is mindset of people in general and it aint likely to change.


The ironic thing is................Ortiz would be chastised more for losing the fight rather than quitting, which exasperates the notion that " bring meaning to my life thru the accomplishments of complete strangers"

However him quitting in the fight gives them more of a stick to beat him with.

My fav fighters are Norris,Trinidad etc, they are not my favourite because they were the most successful, but because of how they laid it on the line for me to be entertained.

But by the same token we are all the same because i would not support a guy who had a 100-98 record would i ? neither would you, would you?

So you and i are know better than these folks who think "bring meaning to my life thru the accomplishments of complete strangers"

very true and i'm glad you see the point i was trying to make.

[Dynamite Kid]

Which means what? Again how many of us give 100% at everything we do in our profession? Sometimes we slack off and pay the price, but that doesn't give anyone the right to demand that you injure yourself either. if Ortiz was mentally beaten already imagine what would of happened to him had he carried on. he probobly would have been Knocked cold and for what so a couple of boxing fans and media types could have said "well at least he gave it his all.

makes no ***ing sense!!

Again you are comparing Industry's which is not relevant here.

If you dont give 100% when you are doing something that you want to achieve in you are cheating yourself, and fans want to see you succeed BECAUSE they DO have that mindset that if you win they are winning, they will come down hard on you if you are giving less than 100%.




Again you are exasperating the situation to make your point and it does not work. People dont expect Ortiz to get himself brutalized to earn their respect they expect him to give his all to achieve his goal, because that is what they are buying into (hype) when they buy PPV.

Do me a favour. knocked cold ? Ortiz was not close to being knocked out, he was just hurt/buzzed and decided he wanted no more.

[flem1]

oh I see there are diffrent degrees of quitting now. which means nothing and is nothing more than cherry picking when a person is a quitter. If you are gonna sit on your couch, getting fat, and call some athlete whos acheived a 100 times more things in his life than you ever will at least have the balls to lump all the quitters together.

What an emotional dumbass..

I was saying how Vazquez was in more of a disadvantage when he quit while Ortiz looked like he was still capable getting back in the fight but chose not to.

Oh well, Since logic is not in your brain, I'll just leave this thread