Tyson vs Lewis Primes

[Axl Rose]

I cant belive you guys can belive Leiws would have beaten prime Tyson.

Lewis had big problems in many fights in hes career. Remember that Tyson went 37 fights without getting hurt before the Doulas fight. He had a great defense and a much bigger puncher than any of the contenders Lewis faught in hes career.

Lewis would get KOd, no daoubt about it.

Briggs,Bruno, Tucker, Klitschko, Rahman, McCall, Mercer all had Lewis in big trouble.

[pcr405]

Yeah the size and skill and power is the difference and thats why tyson would KO lewis with a few rounds cuz it took slow coach lewis to get going!!!!

To me that dosnt make any sense are you saying tyson is bigger and more skillful or are you saying lewis is bigger and more skillful and thats why tyson will win?????

[Mersey]

To me that dosnt make any sense are you saying tyson is bigger and more skillful or are you saying lewis is bigger and more skillful and thats why tyson will win?????

lol

[StarshipTrooper]

Holmes was quick at dancing not throwing the right hand. Lennox's single right hand was like a ******* blast that would KO on impact. Holmes would just Jab, Jab, Jab, for ten rounds until his guy fell down.

Them Apples already made my response for me

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

Yes, but, not many heavy weights really fought like Mike did. He liked to shoot his load inside about 6 or 7 rounds and throw as many punches as possible.

Holmes didn't get hit with repeated right hands in his career, but either did a lot of guys Tyson faced.

Holmes did however, eat big right hands during his career, from Norton and Shavers, Holyfield as well.

Ali was vulnerable to left hooks, not just Cooper tagged him with it, but Frazier, Norton.

I guess you can argue that in his real prime, say around the time he fought Liston, he was quick enough to avoid the hook most of the time. During his comeback years when he accomplished the most, he ate left hooks frequently.

It's hard to gauge if he really was susceptible to that punch because the competition he faced later on was better IMO as well.

Also, had Ali fought Frazier at around 205 lbs, how would he have stood up against prime Fraziers punches? He was a bigger man when he faced Frazier. 205 lbs Frazier was really dealing the damage to Ali who at that point had about 10 extra lbs of natural muscle on him.

Then of course, I think Ali's offensive was much better before his comeback as well, so how would Frazier have dealt with it is another good question.

Just throwing it out there.

I'm still 50/50 on the Tyson vs Holmes fight, I only brought up an argument because a lot of people seem to be bandwagon hopping.

You can make the same case against Tyson then as he was rocked by big uppercuts more than once during his prime so clearly he was susceptable to it (see the Tucker and Bruno fights). It works both ways as you can take isolated snapshots from any fighter's career and generalize it. Now before any Lewis fan-bois jump on that as proof Lennox beats Tyson because Lewis has a good uppercut let me say that the uppercut is NOT a smart punch to throw at the range Tyson liked to fight: The punch would probably miss and Lewis WOULD get countered.

The truth is ALL fighters get hit: Even the best defensive fighters one might care to name such as Pep or Whitaker got hit repeatedly in every fight they fought. It's simply impossible to go through a professional fight without getting hit at least some no matter how good you are defensively. The difference between good defensive fighters and poor ones is how frequently they got hit in their fights not whether they got hit at all.

To me, for a fighter to considered particularly vulnerable to a punch he has to be tagged with it repeatedly in a fight ie. Kostya Tszyu against Vince Phillips and the overhand right, Hearns against Hagler same punch. THEN you have a case.

Poet

[BattlingNelson]

Holmes was quick at dancing not throwing the right hand. Lennox's single right hand was like a ******* blast that would KO on impact. Holmes would just Jab, Jab, Jab, for ten rounds until his guy fell down.

Holmes had one of the finest right hands in HW-boxing history. I'm sorry but I'm pretty sure you don't know what you're talking about.

[StarshipTrooper]

First, I never heard Larry complain about it and Larry complains about a lot of things.

Since I believe the three knockdown rule was in effect for that fight Larry had no grounds to make a complaint.

And now to the video:

What's your count?

This is what I see....

Holmes hits the canvas at {Time} 7:21.....he is on his back, lifeless, eyes shut...ref is on top of him and takes out his mouthpiece...at {Time} 7:30, his people are now near him and get on their knees...Holmes still out and no attempt to get up. Nobody is holding him down. They are now lifting up his head to see if he is alright. Holmes makes no attempt to get up. If he wanted to get up, he could do it by rolling to his side and lifting himself back up...he doesn't; he can't. He continues to stay on the ground. Nobody is laying on top of him to hold him down. They are in his way but he is making no attempt to get up. Even at 7:56 when they start to lift him up, look at his eyes and his body...he's not all there. HE WAS NOT MAKING THE 10 COUNT.

If he did somehow jump up at 9...he would have been in the hospital because he was not just going to be dropped for 10...but out like Roy Jones Jr and Ricky Hatton.

The final knockdown occurs at the :06 mark of round for. Time on the video:

7:21 Holmes' back hits the canvas
7:23 Referee is removing the mouthpiece with his left hand waving the fight off with his right.
7:26 The attendents are now all over Holmes.

That's not even close to a full 10 count.

If he did somehow jump up at 9...he would have been in the hospital because he was not just going to be dropped for 10...but out like Roy Jones Jr and Ricky Hatton.

I made that point 3 or 4 posts ago: That if the fight actually HAD continued Larry would have wound up getting seriously hurt. So this isn't even an issue. I've never said it was a "bad" stoppage.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

One of the BIG advantages Ali and Holmes had was fighting Heavyweights....Heavyweights that are plodders and are not particulary fast. This is when Tyson makes up the difference with his speed, accuracy, combination punches, etc. Even his size/height, can play to his advantage.

You can turn that around though: One of the big advantages that Tyson had was that plodders aren't particularly fast. This is when Ali makes up the difference with his speed, accuracy, combination punches ect. I don't think any resonable observer can say that Tyson's straight ahead quickness and relatively fast hands for a Heavyweight are in Ali's league as far as speed goes. Nor do I think a case can be made that Tyson was a more accurate puncher or threw better combos.

It wasn't just Cooper that knocked down Ali/Clay... Sonny Banks also did it. Banks had the SPEED and combination punching to bother Ali. Banks wasn't some lumbering Heavyweight. And Clay got caught in the exchanged while both were punching.

Young Clay ie. pre-prime Ali also had a habit of getting his feet tangled up especially coming off the ropes. Most of his pre-prime vulnerability stems from that and it was a habit mostly eradicated by the time he reached his prime.

Even Doug Jones made Ali miss.

That's not for you...that's for anybody else that brings up that Ali would have hit Tyson with every punch and Tyson wouldn't be able to get out of the way and be knocked out by 8.

Well that's just silly: No fighter ever born has punched with 100% accuracy and only a fool or a hopeless fan-boi would make that argument. No such thing perfection in the ring.

Poet

[Hitman Hodgson]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle3300963.ece

Bottom paragraph for Lewis' opinion

[Benny Leonard]

=poet682006;5377763]Since I believe the three knockdown rule was in effect for that fight Larry had no grounds to make a complaint.

He had no grounds to complain because he was KTFO. The ref was right there and he saw the condition Holmes was in.

The final knockdown occurs at the :06 mark of round for. Time on the video:

7:21 Holmes' back hits the canvas
7:23 Referee is removing the mouthpiece with his left hand waving the fight off with his right.
7:26 The attendents are now all over Holmes.

That's not even close to a full 10 count.

They are not holding Holmes down and Holmes is not even moving. And it wasn't at 7:26 when they were near him. They may have been in the ring at that time but they weren't next to Larry at that point; they were still running over to him. The only person near him at 7:26 is the REF who is now taking out his mouth-piece, while Larry is still asleep. Look at his body; look at his eyes. Pause the video. Even at 7:30, when one guy kneeled down...they are checking on him but not holding him down...and again, Holmes is not moving. It even looks like they are trying to elevate Larry's head.

I made that point 3 or 4 posts ago: That if the fight actually HAD continued Larry would have wound up getting seriously hurt. So this isn't even an issue. I've never said it was a "bad" stoppage.

Poet

So that I don't have to go back...What's the debate again?


Was it that Larry could have gotten up (even though it didn't matter)???