Tyson vs Lewis Primes

[Poet682006]

I only see the ref over him who is taking out his mouth-piece at that time...with Holmes lying on the ground, eyes shut, not moving.

Continue....

I'll make a thread for it to get other opinions.

Then obviously you're incapable of reading the time because the referee is removing his mouthpiece at the 7:23 mark. I have no doubt that when Tyson's involved you only see what you want to see. You might want to refrain from drinking the Tyson brand KoolAid next time you post in thread involving him.

Poet

[Benny Leonard]

Then obviously you're incapable of reading the time because the referee is removing his mouthpiece at the 7:23 mark. I have no doubt that when Tyson's involved you only see what you want to see. You might want to refrain from drinking the Tyson brand KoolAid next time you post in thread involving him.

Poet

That's the start but his hand is still in his mouth at 7:26, is it not?

And who else is there at that time...who is holding him down?

[Poet682006]

That's the start but his hand is still in his mouth at 7:26, is it not?

And who else is there at that time...who is holding him down?

Was he or was he not squating over him and removing the mouth piece at the 7:23 mark? At the 7:25 mark you can see the attendents rushing into the ring. 7:26 and 7:27 are closeups of the ref with his hand on the mouthpiece. 7:28 shows Larry surrounded by the attendents. Now, do you think they suddenly materialized at the 7:28 and didn't arrive there at 7:26 or 7:27 while they were showing the closeup? Hello? I don't even know why I'm having this discussion since you're obviously a Tyson fan-boi and reason and logic are lost on that type of poster.

Poet

[Benny Leonard]

Was he or was he not squating over him and removing the mouth piece at the 7:23 mark? At the 7:25 mark you can see the attendents rushing into the ring. 7:26 and 7:27 are closeups of the ref with his hand on the mouthpiece. 7:28 shows Larry surrounded by the attendents. Now, do you think they suddenly materialized at the 7:28 and didn't arrive there at 7:26 or 7:27 while they were showing the closeup? Hello? I don't even know why I'm having this discussion since you're obviously a Tyson fan-boi and reason and logic are lost on that type of poster.

Poet

The ref was over a lifeless Larry Holmes at 7:23; YES.
Was Holmes moving?
Were his eyes open?


People are standing around him but they are not holding him down, are they?

The ref is still hovering over him at 7:29...Holmes still laid out in the same position. Nobody is on their knee yet. One guy is hunched over looking at Larry. That guys shoulders are towards our view. One other guy is bending down going to the floor to check on him and there is another guy behind him who is coming forwards as well. And another guy with a black coat on. Theo others had Red {Larry's team}.
NOT HOLDING DOWN LARRY. Larry still motionless. 7:30 guy is on his knee and then they proceed to lift Larry's head up.



If he eyes were open and he was moving and the ref was hunched over him...yeah...I would give you that....but he is not moving and his eyes were still shut when the mouth-piece was being taken out in full.


So at what point do you see movement from Larry that gives you indication he could have gotten up before 10?

[Poet682006]

Why do I even bother with nuthuggers? All the same.

Poet

[yeykax]

Lewis would had gotten ko in the first fight once Tyson hit him on the chin.Then in a rematch Lewis would had washed Tyson up!!!!!!!!

[Benny Leonard]

Why do I even bother with nuthuggers? All the same.

Poet

Coming from the person who thinks Larry could have gotten up.

Maybe it is your avatar that is bothersome more so than your talk but I think they go hand in hand.

You still didn't answer the questions.



I just don't see how Larry could have gotten up when he was motionless.


Curious: Why do you always sign off with "Poet" if your name is already attached?


And if you bothered to read my posts in this thread you would have known I voted for option 3. Yeah...some nuthugger I am. I guess I'm a ******* nuthugger.
I've also favored Ali and Foreman over Tyson.
And I've said Lewis would be his toughest test out of his generation of fighters.

[Joeyzagz]

You do know that Tyson DID NOT QUIT against Douglas, right?

When he took a big shot from Tucker...did he quit? NO

When Ruddock stood up to him and hit him back...even stunning him...did Tyson quit? NO. In fact, he gave him a rematch.

When Holyfield stunned him badly...did Tyson quit?
NO

When Lewis pounded on his ass, did Tyson quit? NO
.

This is where we have a difference of opinion. I believe he quit in the Douglas fight. I also believe he quit in the 1st Holyfield fight. A supremely talented individual like Tyson can quit mentally and still look pretty decent in the ring.

We know Tyson can handle pressure from a good fighter like Ruddock, but we have no idea how he would react to an elite fighter like Lennox, Vitali or Evander. Tyson was never tested by anyone noteworthy under Kevin Rooney so how can you say he would have beaten any version of Lennox Lewis? Its all based on wishful thinking and not on any facts.

[them_apples]

Then obviously you're incapable of reading the time because the referee is removing his mouthpiece at the 7:23 mark. I have no doubt that when Tyson's involved you only see what you want to see. You might want to refrain from drinking the Tyson brand KoolAid next time you post in thread involving him.

Poet

Don't you find it weird that Holmes is flat on his back with his arms spread open? When someone is generally trying to get up they don't lie on their back in a relaxed state. If he was struggling to get up bu the ref wouldn't let him then I'd see the point. He looked pretty lifeless to me. I re watched it a few times.

the post fight interview Holmes seemed like he was just recovering from a KO.

You are getting mad at BLeonard but he's arguing a logical point. I really couldn't see Holmes getting up to beat 10. The most I could see is him stumbling up and falling again.

[them_apples]

You can make the same case against Tyson then as he was rocked by big uppercuts more than once during his prime so clearly he was susceptable to it (see the Tucker and Bruno fights). It works both ways as you can take isolated snapshots from any fighter's career and generalize it. Now before any Lewis fan-bois jump on that as proof Lennox beats Tyson because Lewis has a good uppercut let me say that the uppercut is NOT a smart punch to throw at the range Tyson liked to fight: The punch would probably miss and Lewis WOULD get countered.

The truth is ALL fighters get hit: Even the best defensive fighters one might care to name such as Pep or Whitaker got hit repeatedly in every fight they fought. It's simply impossible to go through a professional fight without getting hit at least some no matter how good you are defensively. The difference between good defensive fighters and poor ones is how frequently they got hit in their fights not whether they got hit at all.

To me, for a fighter to considered particularly vulnerable to a punch he has to be tagged with it repeatedly in a fight ie. Kostya Tszyu against Vince Phillips and the overhand right, Hearns against Hagler same punch. THEN you have a case.

Poet

Tyson was susceptible to uppercuts, it was the one punch that could catch him and do damage, just rather dangerous to throw if you weren't quick enough.

I see what you are saying though, neither Holmes, Ali, or Tyson really got tagged a whole lot by the same punch. Although Ali almost makes the book, just he was so damn tough.