Tyson vs Lewis Primes

[them_apples]

I've heard people say the same with Louis when discussing Marciano...you believe him?
Some call it "humility."

Tyson's mindset at the time of Lewis was not the same young fighter.

You can also see this when interviewed by Charlie Rose and Rose plays an old interview of Mike with him...and Tyson is almost shocked at his young self and mentioned the confidence that guy had.

People change my friend and think differently based on their ability at the time.


Tyson always needed answers and a confidence builder...that was training and that was with Rooney.
Different mindsets...different versions of himself.


I was also watching Mike&Mike {show} and Grant Hill {b-ball} was talking about how his daughter was playing a HL video of his early career...him at his best...and he was a bit surprised at how good he actually was. It was a long time ago. A time when he was actually healthy and well trained.
He had become so accustomed to the way he was now...the way he was for many years (because of injury)...that he basically forgot.

Yea it's sort of ****** to go by what fighters say. I mean, if we are going to take what fighters say as truth..Mayweather says he thinks he could beat Leonard, Ali said he'd woop all the old school fighters..etc

[them_apples]

I'm sorry but Lennox Lewis is NOT quicker than Holmes.....He's not even particularly quick when compared to ANY of the great Heavyweights.

Poet

yea really haha, they obviously never seen a prime Holmes, one of the quickest HW's ever for that matter.

[them_apples]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"]
How many times did you see a prime Holmes get tagged REPEATEDLY by right hands in fight? I certainly can't recall any. To say a fighter is particularly susceptable to a punch would indicate that fighter getting tagged repeatedly with it not just one instance. This is similar to people going on about how a prime Ali was vulnerable to left hooks because Henry Cooper tagged him with one ONCE in their first fight.

Poet

Yes, but, not many heavy weights really fought like Mike did. He liked to shoot his load inside about 6 or 7 rounds and throw as many punches as possible.

Holmes didn't get hit with repeated right hands in his career, but either did a lot of guys Tyson faced.

Holmes did however, eat big right hands during his career, from Norton and Shavers, Holyfield as well.

Ali was vulnerable to left hooks, not just Cooper tagged him with it, but Frazier, Norton.

I guess you can argue that in his real prime, say around the time he fought Liston, he was quick enough to avoid the hook most of the time. During his comeback years when he accomplished the most, he ate left hooks frequently.

It's hard to gauge if he really was susceptible to that punch because the competition he faced later on was better IMO as well.

Also, had Ali fought Frazier at around 205 lbs, how would he have stood up against prime Fraziers punches? He was a bigger man when he faced Frazier. 205 lbs Frazier was really dealing the damage to Ali who at that point had about 10 extra lbs of natural muscle on him.

Then of course, I think Ali's offensive was much better before his comeback as well, so how would Frazier have dealt with it is another good question.

Just throwing it out there.

I'm still 50/50 on the Tyson vs Holmes fight, I only brought up an argument because a lot of people seem to be bandwagon hopping.

[TEDetc]

Holmes was quick at dancing not throwing the right hand. Lennox's single right hand was like a ******* blast that would KO on impact. Holmes would just Jab, Jab, Jab, for ten rounds until his guy fell down.

You've never watched Holmes fight, please stop posting now.

[them_apples]

Holmes was quick at dancing not throwing the right hand. Lennox's single right hand was like a ******* blast that would KO on impact. Holmes would just Jab, Jab, Jab, for ten rounds until his guy fell down.

Why didn't Lewis KO everyone then? Why does Lewis not have a knockout puncher status like Foreman or Tyson?

Because all Lewis did was jab,jab,jab until his crappy opponent fell down.

I'm exaggerating a bit, Lewis fought average HW competition, Ali, Holyfield, those guys fought some pretty wicked competition.

[Benny Leonard]

I pick the 2000's Lennox Lewis to beat Tyson by a wide UD similar to the TUa fight.

I pick the 1992 Lennox to beat Tyson by 8th round TKO. Lennox is 2 inches taller than Holmes and twice as quick as any version of Holmes. Tyson would have problems.

Lewis fought a FAT version of Tua. Best version of Tua was when he faced IKE. I don't think Tua was ever the same after that fight. His career went up and down just like his weight. Not that I would take Tua over Lewis anyway, but using a fat Tua that fought Lewis as why Lewis would beat a prime Tyson is off the mark. Tua didn't even have the same tools as Tyson although I do like Tua and he was a quality HW for his size like Tyson was for his size.

And WTF....are you serious?

And by the way...even though Holmes sometimes talks a lot of nonsense, I read an interview by him on his website a while back and he talked about one time when Lewis asked him to teach him how to throw and use the jab...and Holmes said he replied with...How about you fight me.
Holmes laughed at Lewis's jab. And he also brought up how Lewis could paw with it as well.
Holmes has a better Jab, except Lewis could throw with power when he wanted to which may have been harder than Holmes.
But the speed, sharpness, and accuracy goes to Holmes by far.

[MrFactor]

Very tough to pick. The prime Lewis was great because he was a thinking fighter with great size and a jab to go with it. He was very good at using his size to keep his opponents at bay.

Tyson was very good in his prime as well. He was not a thinking fighter. He had a very effective routine. He was very deceptivelt defensive. great headmovement that would and could negate a jab. For a relatively small man with short arms, Tyson had a very effective jab.

The first guy to get out of his comfort zone and make a mistake loses this one. Patience would have been the key in this fight. Tysons speed, power and ability to react vs Lewis' size, power and ability to think. Good matchup. Very hard to pick...

[Joeyzagz]

Im bored of these "What-Ifs and maybes. Here are the Facts


Fact 1: Lewis defeated every opponent he ever faced professionally.

Fact 2: One of those opponents was Tyson in an actual head to head match up. Lewis(36 years old) Tyson(35 years old)

Fact 3: Tyson did not avenge a single loss in his entire 50-6 Pro career.

The main argument Im getting is that Tysons prime conveniently finished at 22 years old. Who the hell begins to decline after age 22? Especially a guy like Mike who had never been in any serious wars prior to the Douglas fight?

If Tyson was prime enough to beat wbc champ Frank Bruno in 3 rounds in 1995, then he is prime enough take Evander Holyfield in 1996. No excuses for Tysons losses.

[Joeyzagz]

And by the way...even though Holmes sometimes talks a lot of nonsense, I read an interview by him on his website a while back and he talked about one time when Lewis asked him to teach him how to throw and use the jab...and Holmes said he replied with...How about you fight me.
Holmes laughed at Lewis's jab. And he also brought up how Lewis could paw with it as well.
Holmes has a better Jab, except Lewis could throw with power when he wanted to which may have been harder than Holmes.
But the speed, sharpness, and accuracy goes to Holmes by far.

Holmes had a better jab, probably the best ever.

But when it comes to the big right hand, no big guy delivered it quicker than Lewis. Deadly.

[Benny Leonard]

Holmes had a better jab, probably the best ever.

But when it comes to the big right hand, no big guy delivered it quicker than Lewis. Deadly.

His right hand was nice; no dout.
I liked Lewis uppercut as well for a big man.

Wlad actually might have the sharpest right hand for a big man and his short-left hook is incredible...like Kostya Tszyu's.