Tyson vs Lewis Primes

[them_apples]

So what you are saying then is that Tysons prime "conviniently" ended before he fought anyone good?

define "good"

Spinks, Holmes and Tucker were all good. you just have excuses for every one of those wins.

Let's break it down.

Spinks, not a blown up cruiser weight, read and article about him and he walked around at over 200 lbs. He was the first man to beat Larry Holmes and he stopped Cooney. He's not a blown up cruiserweight if he could do that.

Tucker...well, years later when he was fat and suffering from his drug abuse, he goes 12 rounds with non other than...Lennox Lewis. Tyson fought this guy when he was a mean lean fighting machine, at 35-0.

Holmes, shot eh? well he certainly went on to accomplish more after he got sparked out in 4 rounds by Mike. Only haters will say he was completely shot. Wasn't at his best clearly, but shot? no way. If Mike was half as bad as you think he was a 70% Larry should have shut him down.

and what do you mean by "greater" Holyfield like you said wasn't at his best when they both fought, and he's not greater than Larry Holmes, or at least they are on par.

now let's start picking on Lewis career, he has no defining fights because he never fought a good prime fighter, ever. Holyfield was in worse shape when he fought Lewis than Tyson, Ruddock had already lost to Mike 2 times. When Lewis fought Mike, a guy named Mcbride was able to do the same thing.

[P4P GOAT]

Those are crazy examples - neither had any head movement or upper body movement. To compare them with the version of Tyson who had Rooney in his corner is ridiculous.


Ray Mercer also lost to Larry Holmes long after Holmes had lost to Tyson. He was good but not that good. Not better than some of the opposition Tyson beat while he was with Rooney. And lol at you mentioning Cooper, who a prime Tyson would have knocked out in the first round.

They are both shorter fighters who try to slip punches to get inside, they are not Mike Tyson but that goes without saying. Point is when you are fighting someone with a Boxing brain who has a reach advantage, its about what the taller man does NOT do more so than what the shorter man does do for the shorter man to have success. Lewis Boxing brain would not let Tyson get near him, he has an uppercut for Tyson to.



Im trying to show you how tough Ray Mercer was. Have you seen his fight with Cooper? then you know Mercer can come through a tough war.

You seen how he pushed Holyfield,Lewis and beat Witherspoon what makes you think, he would not push Mike Tyson?

Mercer is not a great fighter, but let me tell you something he can take one helluva shot and he keeps coming after you, he is also physically very strong. Last time Mike hit a guy and he never went away he quit or got KTFO

Holyfield,Douglas and McBride

[Dave Rado]

So what you are saying then is that Tysons prime "conviniently" ended before he fought anyone good?

If you really can't tell the difference between the boxer-puncher who fought with Rooney in his corner and the head-hunter who showed no head movement and didn't try to box, in his later fights, then there's no point in trying to discuss boxing with you until you learn something about the sport. And we've discussed his opposition while he was with Rooney exhaustively in this thread, so I'm not going to go through it all over again. But to pretend he didn't fight anyone good is just silly.

[P4P GOAT]

So what you are saying then is that Tysons prime "conviniently" ended before he fought anyone good?

Thats correct, but apparently thats just a coincidence.

[Benny Leonard]

What you people need to realise is that Mike Tyson is a fabrication of epic proportions. Mike Tyson is a guy that through fear, intimidation and a limited but effective arsenal looked amazing against lesser fighters.

Against James Douglas, a man going through the emotional windmill after the death of his mother Tyson faced a man who just didn't care if he got hurt. Douglas took Tysons best and kept coming until Tyson wilted, he'd never be the same again.

Lennox Lewis is a man with more tools than Tyson, however Lewis was lazy, he allowed Oliver Mcall to beat him, he did the same against Rahman, he avenged these losses easily. In a way the losses galvanised him and made him more determined.

Lewis has numerous obsticles in his way when trying to get historical respect.

1. Laziness (Manny Steward said Lewis never fought to full potential, Lewis showed up out of shape vs rahman and paid the price.)

2. Boring Style (Lewis was a boxer, not a brawler like Tyson, or a flashy entertainer like ali, lewis did enough to get the job done, rarely more. If Lewis could win the race without getting out of first gear he'd do it)

3. Not American/ not percieved by many as british (Lewis nationality affected his fanbase, he had little or no hype around him most of the time)

You have to be kidding? LIMITED?
When he was fully trained, he had one of the best arsenals in history for a HW, let alone any division. He was 5'11, 220 going up against bigger guys and you want to say he was limited?
He could throw every punch in the book with accuracy and power and had incredible timing. He could bob and weave and make you miss and counter and make you pay. He had one of the shortest reaches in HW history and yet out-jabbed taller fighters with greater reach.

Hell, at 6'5, 240 pounds, Lewis SHOULD HAVE WON against SMALLER competition.


You say Lewis was lazy in certain fights...What was Tyson after Spinks....and for Douglas?

Lewis was knocked out against McCall. I never heard about him being lazy with that fight. The fight he was lazy in was against Rahman.

And Lewis did show us his best. It just happened to be mostly in rematches or when people attacked him. That's what Manny wanted from Lewis. See how Grant attacked him and Lewis responded?
That's also why Manny wants this fight with Haye for Wlad...to force Wlad to fight at his best.



There were a few things in Lewis's favor to succeed over Tyson. One, which is key, was his Mother. She kept him grounded and taught him well.
Two: Being pushed in the background which allowed him to stay hungry and mature as a person and a fighter.
Three: Size
Lewis made better choices than Tyson by far.

Tyson had many things as well that helped him get to the top but we don't know if Lewis was put in the same place if he would have gotten as far as he did. But that is life and Lewis fulfilled his path and Tyson didn't.

One of the things I liked about Lewis was that I never heard about him having Women trouble. His career was first and I think that has to do with his maturity and backbone with the one women that he cared about most...his Mother.

[NakiFan]

Tyson was only good when he had his aura, he used to scare people, I have had anxiety attacks, To the people around me i look fine, but you feel like you are being strangled, you are trying to keep still against uncontrolable shivers, you can't think properly, its insane I cant imagine having that happen in a fight.

thats what tysons early opponents had.

[them_apples]

I think it's high time we start bringing up how comical Lewis' Career is now.

He got knocked out cold by a guy named Rahman. I better not hear any excuses that he wasn't at his best.

Let's name all the great fighter's Lewis fought in their primes since Mike Tyson never fought any.

[Benny Leonard]

I think Holyfield would have beat Tyson prime for prime, because he too, wasn't at his best. I just don't think Lewis would have, style wise Mike beats him.

I actually lean towards the opposite. There are many things Tyson could have done to Holyfield that he didn't do...one being Body Shots and continue use of the jab. I was never sold on Holyfield being able to take the punishment from Tyson's body-shots because of Evander's small waist. Holy was past his prime when he met Tyson but Tyson hurt him bad with a body shot but didn't know how to follow up properly at that point. Early Tyson breaks down the body first and can fight behind the jab. Plus, besides being well trained, Rooney came up with the game-plans for Tyson and guided him through each fight. They were both not that good when they met each other, but Holyfield had two things going for him that Tyson didn't have: Being an active fighter and being motivated to win.

Prime vs. Prime...I still lean towards Tyson beating Holyfield.

Lewis: I think Lewis gives him a tough test but again...I'm lazy at the moment to break it down.

[kmcc505]

I'm not a Tyson fan, but Mike would starch LL.

[NakiFan]

Lol Lewis fans readily awknowledge lewis underachieved, some of that was his fault, some wasn't.

Tyson fans think he could KO a great white shark and that he's one of the greates heavies of all time. lol his prime was 5 minutes, he got battered by the only good fighters he ever fought and he got kicked up the ass on the way out by an irish club fighter lmao.