HYPOTHETICAL: If Mayweather DOMINATES Pacquiao, where does PBF belong among ATG's?

[D-MiZe]

If Mayweather can beat Pacquiao, best fighter of this generation.

What this guy said.

I think both Mayweather and Pacman will become ATGs. Can't really say where he'll belong among other ATGs.

[fcastro1]

having said that pac will beat floyd and be top 10.

[strugler]

By bringing up the weight they started at, I'm assuming you're implying that Pacquiao was the smaller man, because I see a lot of Pacfans doing that.

They all say that Manny started out at 106lbs.

But what they don't say, is that Floyd did too.

The only difference is that Manny started as a professional at the age of 16, because he had to because he wanted to make money.

Whereas when Floyd was around 16, he was fighting at 106 in the Golden Gloves. He didn't have that need for money, he was getting amateur experience.

Pacquiao had a few fights at 106 before jumping up to 114lbs, because he was a teenager with a rapidly devolping body.

Mayweather also had to do the same thing, fighting only 1 year at 106, before jumping up to 114 as well. He then fought for 2 years at 114, before his body growth forced him to move up in weight once again, to 125lbs.

There's really no difference in size between the two.

I disagree with you on this...........What weight did PBF turn pro?.......aint talkin about the age really......am talking about their "professional" achievement..............and the way he disposes his opponent is another thing...............being active is yet another thing................and defying the odds is yet another thing.................What im saying is RESUME wise.............PBF doesnt hold a candle against PAC.....but skillwise is another matter.............you forgot to answer my duran-hagler analogy?............not saying PBF is a "hagler" but even if PBF beats PAC doesnt automatically makes him higher ATG wise...................

[ßringer]

I disagree with you on this...........What weight did PBF turn pro?.......aint talkin about the age really......am talking about their "professional" achievement..............and the way he disposes his opponent is another thing...............being active is yet another thing................and defying the odds is yet another thing.................What im saying is RESUME wise.............PBF doesnt hold a candle against PAC.....but skillwise is another matter.............you forgot to answer my duran-hagler analogy?............not saying PBF is a "hagler" but even if PBF beats PAC doesnt automatically makes him higher ATG wise...................

It has nothing to do with how big they were when they turned pro, because they had completely different circumstances dictating their careers.

On the one hand, Manny needed money. So he turned pro with 0 amateur experience as a way to make money.

On the other hand, Floyd didn't have a desperate need for money, so he went in the amateurs to master his craft.

It doesn't change the fact that when they were both 16 they were both fighting at 106lbs.

Do you really think that Pacquiao wouldn't have went to the amateurs to learn a thing or two had he not been strapped for cash?

They both started boxing in the same weight division, 106lbs. One of them an amateur, the other a pro. And they both had very few fights at 106 before having to jump up to 114 because of their growing bodies.

As for your question, Duran gets rated higher. Everybody knows that.

But it's a horrible comparison because Floyd is nothing like Hagler, and Pacquiao is nothing like Duran.

And saying that Floyd "doesn't hold a candle to Pacquiao" in terms of record, or achievement, is basically just nuthugger speech.

Manny's won 6 titles in 6 different weight classes.

Floyd won 5 in 6 different weight classes.

Manny has Barrera, Morales, Marquez, Oscar, and Ricky as standouts on his record.

Floyd has Corrales, Castillo, N'dou, Oscar, and Ricky on his.

Pacquiao has an egde on Floyd in terms of accomplishments.

But it's not a blowout victory by any means. It's a close call, with Manny having a slight edge thanks to that 6th title.

[Ishy Aytan]

[QUOTE=strugler;5265101]I disagree with you on this...........What weight did PBF turn pro?.......aint talkin about the age really......am talking about their "professional" achievement..............and the way he disposes his opponent is another thing...............being active is yet another thing................and defying the odds is yet another thing.................What im saying is RESUME wise.............PBF doesnt hold a candle against PAC.....but skillwise is another matter.............you forgot to answer my duran-hagler analogy?............not saying PBF is a "hagler" but even if PBF beats PAC doesnt automatically makes him higher ATG wise...................[/QUOTE]



If Pacquiao's considered the best of this generation, how does a Mayweather victory over him not increase his position on the ATG list?

[strugler]

It has nothing to do with how big they were when they turned pro, because they had completely different circumstances dictating their careers.

On the one hand, Manny needed money. So he turned pro with 0 amateur experience as a way to make money.

On the other hand, Floyd didn't have a desperate need for money, so he went in the amateurs to master his craft.

It doesn't change the fact that when they were both 16 they were both fighting at 106lbs.

Do you really think that Pacquiao wouldn't have went to the amateurs to learn a thing or two had he not been strapped for cash?

They both started boxing in the same weight division, 106lbs. One of them an amateur, the other a pro. And they both had very few fights at 106 before having to jump up to 114 because of their growing bodies.

As for your question, Duran gets rated higher. Everybody knows that.

But it's a horrible comparison because Floyd is nothing like Hagler, and Pacquiao is nothing like Duran.

And saying that Floyd "doesn't hold a candle to Pacquiao" in terms of record, or achievement, is basically just nuthugger speech.

Manny's won 6 titles in 6 different weight classes.

Floyd won 5 in 6 different weight classes.

Manny has Barrera, Morales, Marquez, Oscar, and Ricky as standouts on his record.

Floyd has Corrales, Castillo, N'dou, Oscar, and Ricky on his.

Pacquiao has an egde on Floyd in terms of accomplishments.

But it's not a blowout victory by any means. It's a close call, with Manny having a slight edge thanks to that 6th title.

As i said..............PBF winning doesnt really mean he "automatically" gets a higher position ATG wise...........he must fight legitimte WW.........imo......that was my point....duran-hagler analogy..........

As for the weight......PAC moved up and destroyed his opposition..........fighting style i guess.........is way more impressive than winning by decision...........not saying PBF wasnt impressive at all..........

Competetion isnt really close........Ledwaba....larios and diaz(considering this was tune-up) is often overlooked...............yes their resume isnt close really..........imo.........

[strugler]

[QUOTE=Ishy Aytan;5265133]

I disagree with you on this...........What weight did PBF turn pro?.......aint talkin about the age really......am talking about their "professional" achievement..............and the way he disposes his opponent is another thing...............being active is yet another thing................and defying the odds is yet another thing.................What im saying is RESUME wise.............PBF doesnt hold a candle against PAC.....but skillwise is another matter.............you forgot to answer my duran-hagler analogy?............not saying PBF is a "hagler" but even if PBF beats PAC doesnt automatically makes him higher ATG wise...................[/QUOTE]



If Pacquiao's considered the best of this generation, how does a Mayweather victory over him not increase his position on the ATG list?

I didnt say it doesnt increase it............i said it wasnt a slamdunk..........

[boxasmash]

top 100 maybe

[ßringer]

1.) As i said..............PBF winning doesnt really mean he "automatically" gets a higher position ATG wise...........he must fight legitimte WW.........imo......that was my point....duran-hagler analogy..........

2.) As for the weight......PAC moved up and destroyed his opposition..........fighting style i guess.........is way more impressive than winning by decision...........not saying PBF wasnt impressive at all..........

3.) Competetion isnt really close........Ledwaba....larios and diaz(considering this was tune-up) is often overlooked...............yes their resume isnt close really..........imo.........

Alright, I numbered those 1, 2, and 3. My responses will be directed the the number that I gave your paragraphs.

1.) Floyd must face a legit Welterweight before he can get a higher position, ATG wise? He's probably going to, in Shane Mosley. But I still don't see how he must face someone at 147 to be ranked higher.

2.) Floyd was very impressive, I suggest you go back and watch all of his fights from 130-135. he had some masterful performances there against some tough opposition in Hernandez, Manfredy, Juuko, Augustus, Corrales, Castillo, and Chavez.

3.) Yes, the competition is close. If you're going to bring up Ledwaba, Larios, and Diaz, then I'm going to bring up Genaro Hernandez, Carlos Hernandez, and Jesus Chavez.

So now it's Pac's Ledwaba, Barrera, Morales, Marquez, Larios, Diaz, Oscar, and Ricky.

vs.

Floyd's Hernandez, Corrales, Hernandez, Chavez, Castillo, N'dou, Oscar, and Ricky.

That's pretty damn close if you ask me.

I'd edge Pac, as I said.

But it's nowhere near the wipeout you're suggesting.

If you haven't already (your dismissive attitude is leading me to believe you haven't), you should watch those Mayweather fights.

If for nothing else, to study up on Floyd because your boy is going to get it on with him within the next year.

[BattlingNelson]

By bringing up the weight they started at, I'm assuming you're implying that Pacquiao was the smaller man, because I see a lot of Pacfans doing that.

They all say that Manny started out at 106lbs.

But what they don't say, is that Floyd did too.

The only difference is that Manny started as a professional at the age of 16, because he had to because he wanted to make money.

Whereas when Floyd was around 16, he was fighting at 106 in the Golden Gloves. He didn't have that need for money, he was getting amateur experience.

Pacquiao had a few fights at 106 before jumping up to 114lbs, because he was a teenager with a rapidly devolping body.

Mayweather also had to do the same thing, fighting only 1 year at 106, before jumping up to 114 as well. He then fought for 2 years at 114, before his body growth forced him to move up in weight once again, to 125lbs.

There's really no difference in size between the two.

So what you're saying is that pac and pbf continues to grow and they are the same size because at 16 they weighed the same?

So you don't take into account that boys mature at different stages of their teens. There might also be racial parameters so that blacks develop at another pace than asians? Furthermore you should also take into account in your logic that Floyd is some 2 years older and heavier.