HYPOTHETICAL: If Mayweather DOMINATES Pacquiao, where does PBF belong among ATG's?

[QUISQUEYA]

top 10 probably, i mean seriously... another would if question... its getting really ****** mayweather fans.. cuz this would if crap doesn't make it real

This is a boxing discussion board. The first word in the thread title was "hypothetical". If you weren't interested, why enter the thread?

[mECHsLAVE]

I think our best glimpse at Floyd's ATG status was his biggest fight. A razor close fight with a DLH who was on his last leg. I mean, the DLH who fought Trinidad may have really embarassed him. Think about it.

Floyd will end his career, even if he beats Pac and Marquez (guys who we've seen lose before) with too many questions and fights that he didn't take, or guys he let other fighters fight in their prime and who he waited for, to be a serious ATG champ. He had a chance, but avoiding Cotto, Mosely, Margarito, Williams, etc etc etc. Now he's interested in coming back, only because most of them have been removed as threats to him. He's back to being able to face smaller men, so he's back to fighting. Sure, he'll do that, no problem. But that doesn't help his legacy much. Now, coming back to take on Paul Williams? Mosely? That's a different story. But he wouldn't be Floyd if he took the hardest, most dangerous fights. Marquez is a great fighter, but he'll be too small for Floyd. That's why Floyd's taking it. Pac will be too small, too, even as good as he's fighting now.

But let's face it. A prime Mosely. A prime DLH. ****, maybe even a prime Trinidad. And Floyd is in major trouble. The list could go on and on. ****, even Margarito would've given Floyd all kinds of hell. I don't believe Floyd has enough fight in him to do what Mosely did to Margarito.... that was just an exceptional, perfect performance, well-engineered and Mosely had the heart to stand and deliver. I do not believe for a second Floyd could've done that.

Floyd is a great fighter, who we will never know how great he really is, because he cherry picked his fights and tip-toed around landmines his whole career. While having great acheivments, they get hollowed out and become transparent when you refuse to take the toughest fights that all the fans want you to take.

There's a reason Sugar Ray Leonard is an all-time great. He didn't avoid Hagler, Hearns, or Hearns rematch, and then look to fight smaller, less dangerous fighters. He stepped into many fights where you weren't sure if he was going to get decapitated or not, and he'd end up standing in there and making you cheer for him, no matter who you had money on, who you predicted to win. THAT is an serious all-time great. Floyd is not and will never be the SRL of this generation, whether or not he had the skill to be, who knows? But he didn't have the heart.

[wmute]

around 40, as high as 35 sometimes. It really depends on that second Morales fight. Morales looked shot in that fight but put on some good performances later so who knows.

some good performances? plural? really? you are funny, your memory always fails you in the same direction.

[j]

Pac weighed 147 for Diaz, 148 for Delahoya and 148 for Hatton. Please help me understand the size difference he is giving up to Floyd.

Thanks in advance.

sure. pac didnt weight 148 until he started bulking up specifically for higher weight classes. that can be a big negative many times for a fighter as it can cause a big change in not only strategy but speed and reflexes.

so far pac has handled extra weight well. but believe me it takes more time to get comfortable with more weight cause u have to sort of resync everything. it is amazing how pac is managing putting on more and more weight. he has been through what, 6 weight classes? helluva jump in boxing world.

[QUISQUEYA]

Pac will be too small, too, even as good as he's fighting now.
.

Mech... what is your hidden message that the fighters who are Floyd's size (Pac) are "too small"?

[wmute]

I think our best glimpse at Floyd's ATG status was his biggest fight. A razor close fight with a DLH who was on his last leg. I mean, the DLH who fought Trinidad may have really embarassed him. Think about it.

Floyd will end his career, even if he beats Pac and Marquez (guys who we've seen lose before) with too many questions and fights that he didn't take, or guys he let other fighters fight in their prime and who he waited for, to be a serious ATG champ. He had a chance, but avoiding Cotto, Mosely, Margarito, Williams, etc etc etc. Now he's interested in coming back, only because most of them have been removed as threats to him. He's back to being able to face smaller men, so he's back to fighting. Sure, he'll do that, no problem. But that doesn't help his legacy much. Now, coming back to take on Paul Williams? Mosely? That's a different story. But he wouldn't be Floyd if he took the hardest, most dangerous fights. Marquez is a great fighter, but he'll be too small for Floyd. That's why Floyd's taking it. Pac will be too small, too, even as good as he's fighting now.

But let's face it. A prime Mosely. A prime DLH. ****, maybe even a prime Trinidad. And Floyd is in major trouble. The list could go on and on. ****, even Margarito would've given Floyd all kinds of hell. I don't believe Floyd has enough fight in him to do what Mosely did to Margarito.... that was just an exceptional, perfect performance, well-engineered and Mosely had the heart to stand and deliver. I do not believe for a second Floyd could've done that.

Floyd is a great fighter, who we will never know how great he really is, because he cherry picked his fights and tip-toed around landmines his whole career. While having great acheivments, they get hollowed out and become transparent when you refuse to take the toughest fights that all the fans want you to take.

There's a reason Sugar Ray Leonard is an all-time great. He didn't avoid Hagler, Hearns, or Hearns rematch, and then look to fight smaller, less dangerous fighters. He stepped into many fights where you weren't sure if he was going to get decapitated or not, and he'd end up standing in there and making you cheer for him, no matter who you had money on, who you predicted to win. THAT is an serious all-time great. Floyd is not and will never be the SRL of this generation, whether or not he had the skill to be, who knows? But he didn't have the heart.

Ah, I just love it when ppl bring in Leonard on this topic.

1) Mayweather's 147 is Leonard's 168 their 4th weight class. Who did Leonard fought at 168?

two old smaller fighters (Duran, and Hearns and a severely dehydrated decent fighter, Lalonde a LHW who had to cut weight to 167)

2) As far as ducking and rematches.
a) Leonard went as far as retiring to not give Hagler a rematch after a close fight.
b) Hearns had to wait 8 years for a rematch.

Compare with what Mayweather did after his only close fight. Immediate rematch.

3) Go see for yourself who was fighting at 154-160 in 89-90, who had the 160 belts while Leonard was fighting at 160 for a 168 title against an old former lightweight and an aging former welter. In 1990 he even tried to get a 3rd fight with Hearns. I am sure Kalambay, McCallum, Nunn, Benn, Eubank were not good enough for him right?


1)+2)+3) = Leonard is a very bad example to make the point you are trying to make

[The_Golden_Boi]

Floyd beats Pacquiao then i would have to say he would probably be around the top 15 maybe 10 at a push!

[wmute]

sure. pac didnt weight 148 until he started bulking up specifically for higher weight classes. that can be a big negative many times for a fighter as it can cause a big change in not only strategy but speed and reflexes.

so far pac has handled extra weight well. but believe me it takes more time to get comfortable with more weight cause u have to sort of resync everything. it is amazing how pac is managing putting on more and more weight. he has been through what, 6 weight classes? helluva jump in boxing world.

So Mayweather always weighed 147-150?

[-X-]

Beating Pac in grand fashion will go along way in history, Will Floyd be considered the best ever? of course not, but it will definetly help in his argument.

[Benny Leonard]

***** boy Floyd is a welterweight, therefore he should fight welterweights.

Beating Pacquiao ain't gonna cut it for me, that's a given.

But if it's Williams, Cotto, Mosley, etc., then it's a different story.

Will people look back and check out the size difference Floyd is giving up by the actual fight?

Things change when you look at them by fight-time: like 147+/WW pound Pac; JrMW Hatton; SMW Clottey; etc.

The divisions are bogus. It's reminds me of the loop-holes the White Collar criminals use to say "well, it's legal" even though there is an unfair advantage and dishonest.