Is Manny Pacquiao a top 20 all time?

[Sugar May Floyd]

What list? Champions based on lineage (lineal champions) are an entirely different list, your list was based on ranking, right?

Wikkipedia:
..."In 2002, The Ring created a championship system that is "intended to reward fighters who, by satisfying rigid criteria, can justify a claim as the true and only world champion in a given weight class."[1] There are currently only two ways that a boxer can win The Ring's title: defeat the reigning champion; or winning a box-off between The Ring's number-one and number-two rated contenders (or, sometimes, number-one and number-three rated).[2] There are also only three ways that a boxer can lose The Ring's title: lose a championship fight, move to a different weight class, or retire.[2] (The Ring does not strip its champions' titles like the sanctioning bodies do.)

..."Pacquiao settled at 112 lbs, winning the WBC Flyweight title over Chatchai Sasakul in the eighth round only to lose it in his second defense against Medgoen Singsurat or Medgoen 3K Battery..."

Cliff Rold:
Manny Pacquiao- Lineal World Flyweight/112 lb. champion (1998-99);

HBO Record:
1998-12-04 Chatchai Sasakul Phuttamonthon, Thailand Pacquiao KO 8
1999-02-20 Todd Makelin Kidapawan City, Philippines Pacquiao TKO 3
1999-04-24 Gabriel Mira Manila, Philippines Pacquiao TKO 4
1999-09-17 Medgoen Singsurat Nakhon, Thailand Singsurat KO 3

Fact is, The Ring title was only initiated in 2002. Pacquiao can`t be in that Ring list cuz he won the alpha title on Dec. 4, 1998 at the same time, he inherited the lineage of that title from Chatchai.

Like I said, the lineal title is not the Ring title, it is more comprehensive than that. Although Ring titles are only awarded to lineal champs.

The first Ring belt was awarded to heavyweight champion Jack Dempsey, the second to flyweight champion Pancho Villa. The magazine stopped giving belts to world champions in the 1990s, but began again in 2002 when it launched its new championship policy intended to reward fighters who, by satisfying rigid e first Ring belt was awarded to heavyweight champion Jack Dempsey, the second to flyweight champion Pancho Villa. The magazine stopped giving belts to world champions in the 1990s, but began again in 2002 when it launched its new championship policy intended to reward fighters who, by satisfying rigid criteria, can justify a claim as the true and only world champion in a given weight class., can justify a claim as the true and only world champion in a given weight class.

Maybe you right


But the ring criteria states There are currently only two ways that a boxer can win The Ring's title: defeat the reigning champion; or winning a box-off between The Ring's number-one and number-two rated contenders (or, sometimes, number-one and number-three rated)


Pacman did not fight number 2 ranked in the ranking and would not have won ring title if it was available

[MELLY-MEL...]

not at this time

[UnDeniable]

Depends how you define generation. If you include Roy, surely you need to include Sweet Pea? In which case, I don't think you can seriously argue Floyd is the most talented.

The only fighters more talented than Floyd in the past 20 years are Roy and Pea


I don't expect you to agree with this because your not a big fan of Floyd but a 130lb Floyd was an absolute beast and many people will agree with me when i say Floyd is one of the most skilled fighters OAT

[a-raines21]

The only fighters more talented than Floyd in the past 20 years are Roy and Pea


I don't expect you to agree with this because your not a big fan of Floyd but a 130lb Floyd was an absolute beast and many people will agree with me when i say Floyd is one of the most skilled fighters OAT

i think roy was more talented, but not sweet pea...... floyd edges him out

[Great Afrikan]

Has Manny Pacquio ever been an undisputed champ? Has he ever tried to unify a division like B-Hop at middleweight or Roy Jones at Light heavyweight?

Has he ever cleaned out a division like Lennox Lewis did at heavyweight?

[strugler]

Has Manny Pacquio ever been an undisputed champ? Has he ever tried to unify a division like B-Hop at middleweight or Roy Jones at Light heavyweight?

Has he ever cleaned out a division like Lennox Lewis did at heavyweight?

Nope i dont think so, but he did fight from flyweight to welterweight being competetive in most weight class just like duran , just like sugar ray, just like floyd.

[Thwf]

...The magazine stopped giving belts to world champions in the 1990s, but began again in 2002....

Maybe you right....

Yes, maybe that`s where the controversy is, there is a missing link in that 12 years that The Ring title stopped. But lineal titles (a mythical term, based on history, and lineage of past champions passed on to present) did exist even without the Ring title. It was still the basis of the Ring`s continuance from 2002, but they could not award it in between that gap.

Based on lineage, or titles inherited by defeating world champions (lineal champion), Manny Pacquiao was flyweight lineal champ in 1998 aside from the alphabet title.

Well, I think I have a headache... its not really our faults its theirs. Boxing experts do contradict themselves as well. PEACE

[Sugar May Floyd]

[QUOTE=Thwf;4802947][QUOTE=Sugar May Floyd;4802866]...The magazine stopped giving belts to world champions in the 1990s, but began again in 2002....

Maybe you right...

Yes, maybe that`s where the controversy is, there is a missing link in that 12 years that The Ring title stopped. But lineal titles (a mythical term, based on history, and lineage of past champions passed on to present) did exist even without the Ring title. It was still the basis of the Ring`s continuance from 2002, but they could no award it in between that gap.

Based on lineage, or titles inherited by defeating world champions (lineal champion), Manny Pacquiao was flyweight lineal champ in 1988 aside from the alphabet title.

Well, I think I have a headache... its not really our faults its theirs. Boxing experts do contradict themselves as well. PEACE

How did I get owned?? All I said was Pacman was never given the ring title at flyweight

[Thwf]

...The magazine stopped giving belts to world champions in the 1990s, but began again in 2002....

Maybe you right...

How did I get owned?? All I said was Pacman was never given the ring title at flyweight

Nope, lets`s back track. You said Pacman was not a lineal champ at flyweight. The Ring criteria you mentioned from 2002 onwards was not applicable in 1998, and he was lineal champ. Let`s just forget the whole thing. It`s clear, Lineal Champ is not The Ring champ.

[Great Afrikan]

Nope i dont think so, but he did fight from flyweight to welterweight being competetive in most weight class just like duran , just like sugar ray, just like floyd.

Leornard and Duran were undisputed champs at one time. I don't consider Floyd just like Pacman top 20....

I mean Dingaan Thobela fought from lightweight to super middleweight, and was champion at junior lightweight, lightweight and super middleweight, with that logic he has a shot at the top 50....