Holyfield says Joe Louis couldn't make it in boxing today

[Johnny2x2x]

Are athletes of today competing under the same conditions as athletes from the past? No.

How are boxers in better conditioning today? Do they fight 15 rounds? Why are most heavyweights visibly out of condition, if according to you they are in better condition? Are you trying to tell me that Andy Ruiz Junior and Tyson Fury are in better condition than Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, Ron Lyle and many more of the 70's heavyweights? What is your proof of this? Where are the feats of endurance?

What is stopping boxers from the past, if they where transported to 2022 utilize the information and technologies that are about today? And if they where allowed to do that, they would be completely different fighters 'Area's of their game may improve'.

You see when you stop and think mate 'Critically think, you will realize what you have stated is way off' and not 100% factual.

If you was to transport back in time, all these modern day fighters that rely on protein shakes, supplement pills, 24 hour babying from strength and conditioning coaches. If all of those fighters where transported back to the 1920's, 30's, 40's, 50's and so on. And the only thing these fighters remember was that they were fighters, and they had to train and live like everyone other fighter of that generation.

Do you really think Tyson Fury would be 270 + pounds? Do you really think Usyk would be 221 pounds? We have already seen what happens to Joshua when he misses a day or two in the weights room. All of these fighters would be completely different fighters. Only the truly old school fighters of these modern times, can go back in time and still be the same fighter 'Fighters who's training is still based off old school methodologies'.

Fighters such as Floyd Mayweather Junior, Bernard Hopkins, Joe Calzaghe, Carl Froch, Marvin Hagler, Sugar Ray Leonard, Thomas Hearns, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis.

With all these technology about, and advancements in sport science. Fighters are still turning up badly out of condition. So how on earth do you class this athletes as superior?

I don't think fighters have evolved for the better entirely. They may have changed, but I am not entirely sure if it is for the better. To be the fighters especially heavyweights since the 90's, have gotten increasingly less athletic 'And naturally more unfit, alarmingly unfit'. To the point where if a fighter turns up resembling a Olympic athlete, he is automatically accused of taking performance enhancing drugs.

Now the Heavyweight division is still the best division, it is my favorite division 'But I have to be honest with the standard which I witness'.

The Heavyweight division is a relic because it should really be about 4 divisions. The fighters are bigger now because bigger is better since HWTs learned that smothering an opponent is what works. I may not like it aesthetically, but that is in fact the evolution. So you've got 6-9, 270 lb Tyson Fury as the best fighter in tat class. And he can stick and move at that size. 210 pound fighters shouldn't be in a ring with a 260 lb fighter, yet there is no weight class above 200 lbs.

Some of those fighters you listed use old school methods true, but they also have better diets, more complex fitness analysis, and better ways to measure their gains. The top fighters today have more technology and know how at their disposal, so they use it. We don't know how fighters from decades ago would fare today where everyone knows every one's style.

Boxing is no different than any other sport, the athletes in every sport get better over time. There is nothing to suggest boxing is different just because we like to fondly remember the past. And it's more than just remembering their skills, we tend to as fans forget a boxer's blemishes over time too. So here we are in 2022 and people think Sugar Ray Leonard fought all comers and never had advantages built into his fight contracts. We forget that Roberto Duran hand picked some opponents. And more old time people forget that Sugar Ray Robinson was criticized for avoiding certain fighters.

Jim Brown was the most physically dominant football player of the 1960s, he was a freak at 6-2, 232 lbs while running in the 4.5s in the forty, but no one thinks he'd be a freak today, he'd be an NFL player, but would just be another dude.

[pesticid]

The Heavyweight division is a relic because it should really be about 4 divisions. The fighters are bigger now because bigger is better since HWTs learned that smothering an opponent is what works. I may not like it aesthetically, but that is in fact the evolution. So you've got 6-9, 270 lb Tyson Fury as the best fighter in tat class. And he can stick and move at that size. 210 pound fighters shouldn't be in a ring with a 260 lb fighter, yet there is no weight class above 200 lbs.

Some of those fighters you listed use old school methods true, but they also have better diets, more complex fitness analysis, and better ways to measure their gains. The top fighters today have more technology and know how at their disposal, so they use it. We don't know how fighters from decades ago would fare today where everyone knows every one's style.

Boxing is no different than any other sport, the athletes in every sport get better over time. There is nothing to suggest boxing is different just because we like to fondly remember the past. And it's more than just remembering their skills, we tend to as fans forget a boxer's blemishes over time too. So here we are in 2022 and people think Sugar Ray Leonard fought all comers and never had advantages built into his fight contracts. We forget that Roberto Duran hand picked some opponents. And more old time people forget that Sugar Ray Robinson was criticized for avoiding certain fighters.

Jim Brown was the most physically dominant football player of the 1960s, he was a freak at 6-2, 232 lbs while running in the 4.5s in the forty, but no one thinks he'd be a freak today, he'd be an NFL player, but would just be another dude.

Athletes haven't really got better in time. That's an illusion.

Watch this video, it will open your eyes

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[pesticid]

[QUOTE=pesticid;n31268667]

Athletes haven't really got better in time. That's an illusion.

Watch this video, it will open your eyes
https://********/8COaMKbNrX0

[baroidi]

If Joe pumped himself full of PEDs like Evan Fields, no doubt he can hang with todays HWs

[Ascended]

Well then you don't understand boxing or the evolution of the fighters, the evolution of sport, they are all better in the modern era, faster more explosive better stamina and bigger athletes with better science, obviously, a Joe Louis would do well in any era but could he make the same legend impact that he did in his time, I doubt it.

wrong joe wouldn't way to slow stiff and basic no use of angles

[Ascended]

everybody who trolled saying joe would do good is crazy way to slow stiff easy to read and basic he would never make pro

[Ascended]

I agree with Holyfield.

Why is boxing the only sport where the fans and analysts don't think today's athletes are far superior to yesterday's? No one is running around saying Mean Joe Green at 6-4, 270 lbs would be a good DT in today's NFL. People don't think George Mikan could play in today's NBA.

But people think boxers from 80 years ago could compete physically with today's better trained and conditioned boxers. I think weight classes give us the impression that those fighters from different eras were equal because they weighed about the same, but that's simply not the case. Sports evolves, boxing is no different. The greats from the 80s would probably fare no better today than the NFL greats from the 80s would fare in football. Today's boxers are stronger, faster, more durable, and better conditioned. We know so much more about peak performance today than we did even 40 years ago. These fighters have teams of nutritionists, teams of trainers, it's a science. And they also have extensive film of everyone, so there are no surprises on fight night style wise.

No sport romaticizes the past more than boxing. The greats from yesteryear would get destroyed by today's modern athletes, the same way some LB from the 60s would break in half trying to tackle someone like Derek Henry in the NFL.

simple cause they crazy everything else in the world advances but boxing doesnt only a dumb crazy person thinks that

[Ascended]

boxing has evolved so much since then, the guys these days are extremely skilled....insert gif of wilder falling over while throwing punches

this not the only era dummy which you people always do talk of current so the 70s-90s doesn't count either cause that was way more advanced then joe time all dudes dudes in his time was trash compared

[PRINCEKOOL]

The Heavyweight division is a relic because it should really be about 4 divisions. The fighters are bigger now because bigger is better since HWTs learned that smothering an opponent is what works. I may not like it aesthetically, but that is in fact the evolution. So you've got 6-9, 270 lb Tyson Fury as the best fighter in tat class. And he can stick and move at that size. 210 pound fighters shouldn't be in a ring with a 260 lb fighter, yet there is no weight class above 200 lbs.

Some of those fighters you listed use old school methods true, but they also have better diets, more complex fitness analysis, and better ways to measure their gains. The top fighters today have more technology and know how at their disposal, so they use it. We don't know how fighters from decades ago would fare today where everyone knows every one's style.

Boxing is no different than any other sport, the athletes in every sport get better over time. There is nothing to suggest boxing is different just because we like to fondly remember the past. And it's more than just remembering their skills, we tend to as fans forget a boxer's blemishes over time too. So here we are in 2022 and people think Sugar Ray Leonard fought all comers and never had advantages built into his fight contracts. We forget that Roberto Duran hand picked some opponents. And more old time people forget that Sugar Ray Robinson was criticized for avoiding certain fighters.

Jim Brown was the most physically dominant football player of the 1960s, he was a freak at 6-2, 232 lbs while running in the 4.5s in the forty, but no one thinks he'd be a freak today, he'd be an NFL player, but would just be another dude.

The heavyweight division is a open class division. And due to this, it is the purest form of competition in the sport of boxing. All other weight divisions are negatively affected by day before weigh in's 'You have potentially 100's upon 100's of fighters, who fight in weight classes which is not their natural weight'. This is a new phenomenon, which in my opinion degrades the competition. Not only in the long term is weight draining, going to negatively impact the condition of a fighter 'But it also creates a illusion'.

Canelo Alvarez in reality going back in history would not be yo yoing up and down in weight. He would have to pick one division, and pretty much stay there.

Tyson Fury is not a genetic marvel; he is 270 + pounds because? He no longer wants to train a certain way. He is not a solid 270 pound. If Tyson Fury was to transport himself back to the 1930's, 40's, 50's 60's and so on. He would not be 270 + pounds, and he would not be the same fighter he is today. From what I can see, he relies on new school training methodologies 'And even still he is not in great condition'. For me this is proof that, these fighters you see today are not automatically better fighters than past generations.

You continue to ignore the differences in environment that athletes from past generations have to compete under, and how these variable's can affect the performances of the athletes. Why are you ignoring this variable? You are ignoring it, because you know it blows your case totally out of the water. This variable, which I have brought up in this thread completely invalidates ANYBODY who speaks as if it is 100% factual that today's athletes are superior to past athletes.

Jesse Owens was running 10.2/3 on mud and cinder tracks, wearing heavy leather spiked shoes, all awhile training and living off food stamps. And may I just add? At those times in America, Jesse Owens was not even recognize as a first class citizen. Mud and Cinder tracks in comparison to today's modern tracks, absorb more energy from the athletes sprinting motion 'There is a decrease in the ground reaction force'.

100m sprinters like hard surfaces; a hard surface is a faster surface. Even going back to the 1980's,all the astro-turf type tracks were slower than the newer tracks that started to get introduced in the 90's. In the 1991 Toyko World Championships, you had sprinters in their 30's breaking world records. Carl Lewis & Linford Christie set faster times, than anything they had produced during the 80's.

'I honestly do not think there are many top sprinters active today, who even with modern sport science and all the best supplements cold duplicate those performances of Jesse Owens if? They were subjected to compete under the exact same conditions'.

Below I am going to leave a video of Asada Powell, running the 100m on grass. Asafa Powell is the most prolific sub-10 100m sprinter of all-times meaning? He has run under sub-10 for the 100m more times, than any other athlete in history 'Total of 97 times'. Powell has a personal record of 9.72 seconds, and he is the former 100m World Record Holder 'And the third faster 100m sprinter of all-times'.

In the video below Asafa Powell is sprinting on grass, wearing modern shoes pretty much at the peak of his career. Powell recorded a time of 10.33 seconds. This race was run at spring time, this is a time of the year sprinters are gearing up for the summer season.

Jesse Owens in 1936 recorded his fastest ever time, of 10.2 seconds. Wearing heavy leather spiked shoes, and the performance he recorded was set on a mud-and cinder track.

Conclusions: It is not 100% factual that fighters or athletes of today are superior to athletes from the past. The reason why it is not 100% factual is because; athletes from different generations were competing in different environments. And due to this, nobody can accurately measure or compare athlete's abilities head to head. But we can speculate, and theorize.

For example: My theory is, that you can only really compare modern day fighters to past fighters if 'Those modern day fighters train with old school methodologies'. Ultimately these are the only modern day fighters who have proven that they could travel back in time, and still be the same fighters. Because they do not rely on protein shakes, supplement pills, and sport science training techniques. Their training predominantly consists of old school training methodologies, which have been developed throughout history from empirical investigation then application.

[billeau2]

One more reason to believe that Holyfield is becoming senile.

Comparing boxing with other sports is ridiculous because boxing is getting worse not better. Journeyman boxers today get run over by contenders, but in Joe Louis's time they could at least defend themselves reasonably well. The best heavyweight of the last ten years is obviously Lennox Lewis, but he never put in 12 hard rounds. What would he do if he had Rocky Marciano or Joe Frazier harrassing him round after round? Saying that Joe Louis is slow is really quite laughable. In his prime he knocked down opponent after opponent with his famous six inch punch. Would Holyfield be able to beat Joe Louis? Perhaps, but it is a style issue. Louis had a problem with good boxers like Holyfield who used a lot of lateral movement. That has NOTHING to do with any kind of modern superiority.

You have sense so I will dovetail off this post. People never learn... we have a guy (Usyk) who is really a cruiser at best (bone structure wise) and he is beating all these big guys And STILL the size queens persist. You tell them that there is more size to weight and nobody wants to listen. Yes, a fighter like the old timer Fitzzimons was a light weight below the waist, BUT had the upper body of a heavy weight, and a guy like Foreman and Liston were just big... did not matter what they weighed... Then you tell them to go watch an average opponent back in the days, watch all the things they could do compared to the average opponent these days. It is Obvious with this in mind that fighters were more skilled back then.

And finally... Louis was not slow, he was deliberate. Bck when you had 15 rounds punchers knew it was a numbers game: you would get a certain amount of chances to catch your guy, and Louis caught his guys!

So with all the proof there is about these topics people often enough, choose to stay ignorant. So be it.