Duran is not a top ten ATG

[Vasyl’s dad]

This post right here sums up the ******ity that Duran fans think with....Ohh and how many people on here have been saying you cant just look at numbers...

So we should stop looking at durans career after the 1st leonard fight because what.

He got embarrassed in the rematch and had to quit
because he then started getting as whippings whenever he faced top fighters.
oh because he reach to ripe old age of..hmmmmm 29...

Puh-lease.......

I guess we should stop looking at floyd career after he moved up and became 29 too, or Jones, or everyone else who moved up, and became 29.

People still make excuses for Roy and make excuses as to why Floyd shouldn't fight certain fighters.


Floyd hasn't even faced the best welters, much less any middleweight.


gtfoh with your stannish ways.

[TheGreatA]

This post right here sums up the ******ity that Duran fans think with....Ohh and how many people on here have been saying you cant just look at numbers...

So we should stop looking at durans career after the 1st leonard fight because what.

He got embarrassed in the rematch and had to quit
because he then started getting as whippings whenever he faced top fighters.
oh because he reach to ripe old age of..hmmmmm 29...

Puh-lease.......

I guess we should stop looking at floyd career after he moved up and became 29 too, or Jones, or everyone else who moved up, and became 29.

Mayweather hasn't had much of a career after 29 years of age.

RJJ's achievements past 29 years of age are rather forgettable as well aside from the Ruiz fight.

[wpink1]

I was talking about the Castillo rematch, i didnt think Floyd was injured in that fight. I thought it was close, but Floyd took the last few rounds to win it. And judging by that i can see Duran giving him trouble.

As for Leonard making Duran quit, i think his skills and defence would frustrate Duran, but like i said, i think his very hard counters did alot of damage, plus the way he humiliated Duran by mocking him, somthing Floyd never does. He doesnt play around in the ring like Floyd and Hamed did.
But ur right, Floyd is better than Dejesus and Benitez. Although Duran did stop Dejesus twice and the Benitez fight was at a higher weight. (sounds like excuses doesnt it! lol). At LW or wen he first moved to WW, i think Duran on top form causes Floyd problems.

Howevr floyd talks soo much trash and young duran was just as much of a trash talker, that they probably would have fought in the press conference.

I am going to look at this Castillo fight again and objectivly and in the open score it with no erasing...

. In the first 3-4 rounds he was winning easily using left rights, moving etc...then in between rounds they have on tape, his corner pointig

Castillo Mayweather 1st fight....
mayweather rounds 1 and 2
3&4 even.Castillo only landed one good punch each round...Cant give him those rounds...
letterman has is 3-1 mayweather.
Round 5 clearly mayweather round..boxing lesson...but letterman gave this round to castillo....WTF...You all look at that round and tell me who won, and where where these so called power punches landed..maybe some to the body.
Round 6 castillo's round....
round 7 castillo round best round for castillo so far...

So far I have it 3 mayweather 2 castillo, 2 even..but 3 & 4 could go either way, as neither did anything.. Momentum clearly castillo

This fight is different than I remember it.

wow round 8even round..and referee took a point away for a punch on the break...wow...... based on that... 4 rounds mayweather, 2 castillo, 2 even.

Comedy...Larry merchant is going off on the referree trying to calm the fightters down.....larry is right though...here in round 9 letter man has Castillo up by 1 after 8 even with the pt deduction. He had castillo originally winning that round.. thus it ended up 9-9

round 9 very close....castillo clearly the aggressor but not really landing anything. Mayweather, did some decent work early but was simply running last minute of the round... Hit castillo after the bell, ref did nothing...Letterma gave it to mayweather.. I have it even that round
4 2, 3.

Round 10, the worst point deduction I have seen from mayweather..Yes he was pushking off earlier, but when they took a point he simply was protecting himself and kept him off of him..Horrible...Even round..As Mayweather for the 1st 2 minutes of the round was clearly having his best round... then castillo came on last minute...
4,2,4....wow very close much closer than I remember. Punch states in round 10 totally wrong story..Need to see that round for yourself. Castillo did not win that round. I am being as objective as possible. Letter man Castillo up by 2, due to the deduction.

round 11, Mayweather's round...great inside fighting by mayweather...letterman is on crack.. No way round 11 was castillo's round. No way. Look at it for yourself. Letterman has Castillo by 3. Announcers have it castillo by 1 going into the 12.

Castillo won round 12......

wow...... Okay My scoring is 5-3,4. But I don't feel like this was a mayweather victory. Those 4 even rounds could have easily went to Castillo. I ask people to be objective. I will be objective here. Mayweather in this fight does not beat Duran. I have watched this fight 4-5 times before, and this time my scoring was closer. Duran that fought Leoanrd beats Mayweather.

Brandish...man I am with you about Duran being overrated. I believe Roy was better pound per pound. Leoanrd IMO should be rated above Duran based on almost everything except Duran had 70 fights at lightweight and leonard only had 40 total. Head to Head, Leoanrd beats duran 95 times out of 100. But. I can not echo the Mayweather sentiments. He is truly a great technical fighter, he would pose Duran some problems, but offensivley IMO he would not be able to keep Duran off of him. My earlier statment where based on Mayweather fighting less caliber opponents. I ask others to be non biased, thus I checked myself and watched again as nonbiased as possible mayweather vs Castillo, and that Mayweather does not have the offensive power, combination boxing etc..to beat Duran. Now duran would have issues with Mayweather no doubt, but Mayweather did not use his mobility vs Castillo like Leonard did vs Duran. Castillo was able to trap Mayweather time and time again along the ropes, and do good body work, etc. Castillo is not as fast as duran, nor has the defense that duran has, nor hits as hard as the hands of stone. He may have the same chin. The one thing that might work in Castillo's favor is I believe he has longer reach. But all in all, Duran IMO would beat Mayweather at 135, 147.

Now pound per pound, i have not changed my tune. I originallly said Duran over Mayweather pound per pound, so this fight means nothing in my estimation.

As for Duran starting at 120..Puh-lease he had 4 fights at that weight, then 9-10 fights at 126. Nothing meaningful, he was 16 just filling out and learning the sport. This is where I point out amateur careers, cuz at 16 mayweather, leoanrd, jones etc...all where less weight too, fighint amateurs which in many cases where tougher fights than those first 15 fights Duran had, and they where fillling out too. If you want to dig that deep, then leonard started out as a jr welter, etc...etc.. the list goes on and on. Leonard fought Bruce curry, randy shields, Mccroy and others as amateurs. I promise you these where tougher fights and fighters along with his fights in the olympcis than the ones your on her trying to pump as as credible for Duran. Duran and many of those opponents did not even have trainers at the time. Source= Hands of Stone...by Duran and his ghost writer..check your facts.

You all go deep to try to justify Duran.

Neither floyd nor duran did much of unifying or defending titles at the higher weight classes. However, Brandish is correct, Floyd did go after the respected title belt at 147 which is always the WBC. He was signed pretty much already to fight Judah, when judah was a big name, he fought him even after he lost to baldomire because of the previous agreement. At the time of the signing judah was still considered a top talent. Not a leonard, but a top talent and a major test. After that because of the helkers giveing him a hard time for avoiding the man that beat judah, Mayweather then fought Baldomir and easily beat him. Not much more at 147 to talk about. Frusterting because this is an era with very good welters. Cotto, margo, Mosley (whom mayweather apparently had been chasing for a while, and he has called him out recentlly but mosly had to get his teeth fixed..hmmm), berto,Williams, clottery. Mayweather retired at at 31 instead of fighting any of these. This impacts his ranking all time. Duran did face everyone, but he lost. Leonard faced everyone while active and not yet retired, hearns faced everyone, hagler did too.


As for your summary about top opposition each faced. Duran oppositon that he beat Marcel, kyobashi, Dejesus, leonard, Buchanon. Is not horrible but it is not comparable to Leonards of duran, benetiz, hagler,kalule, hearns. Then you factor in Duran was older when he faced Moore, and Barkly and won, I factor in leonrd was out of boxing for five years and came back and beat hagler as stated, and Lalong..

Hmmmmmm I think is very clear that Leonard gets the nod based on quality. We can go on about titles, leonards 5 to durans 4 or head to head..leoanrd 2-1. leonard beat the men that beat Duran. You dont see any loses on Rays career before he retired to fighters like Laing, or Dejesus.

I have already made the case for Roy Jones.

[Brandish]

Mayweather hasn't had much of a career after 29 years of age.

RJJ's achievements past 29 years of age are rather forgettable as well aside from the Ruiz fight.

floyd did in 9 years what it took duran 20 to accomplish. and when you talk about rather forgettable what did duran do that was better then what roy did after the age of 29.

don't worry I'll wait

[daggum]

all time greats don't lose.

sven ottke
joe calzaghe
zsolt erdei

those are all time greats.

[TheGreatA]

floyd did in 9 years what it took duran 20 to accomplish. and when you talk about rather forgettable what did duran do that was better then what roy did after the age of 29.

don't worry I'll wait

Duran did against Esteban DeJesus what Mayweather never accomplished, he unified the titles.

Duran did against Leonard what Mayweather never accomplished, he defeated an all time great in his prime.

Roy Jones:

Wins over John Ruiz (HW), Antonio Tarver, Reggie Johnson, JC Gonzales

Roberto Duran:

Wins over Iran Barkley (MW), Davey Moore, Pipino Cuevas, Jorge Castro

[Brandish]

are you saying leonard, hearns, hagler, and benitez shouldn't get credit for beating duran.

Buchanan was the WBC/WBA champion, but got into a dispute with the WBC, I believe over a sanctioning fee, but not sure on that, and was either stripped or vacated. But to all intents and purposes, he was the man, and Duran was defending the legitimate title. He then settled things once and for all by beating DeJesus to re-unify, something Floyd has never done.

are you aware that diego corrales was the IBF champ at 130 and that before the floyd fight the IBF stripped him, so you say floyd never unified he didn't need to when you have the #1 and #2 facing each other, the same scenario you just put forth with ken buchanan..what a hypocrite you are.

and the question I have for you is how come duran never unified 135 from the time he beat buchanan in 1972 up until 1978 his last fight at 135. you like to ask this question of floyd so hopefully you can answer why duran gets a pass on not unifying the division for over 6 years he was at lightweight.

The other difference is there were only two sanctioning bodies around in those days, the IBF not being formed until 1983. Now there's four, but Floyd doesn't fight the other title holders, hence Floyd never being anything more than a 25% champion.

was duran a 50% champion at 135 for 6 years. was he a 25% champion the night he beat duran, what about the night he beat moore was he a 25% champion then as well.

you sound ****** duran has never been recognized as the man of any weight class other than 135. floyd has been recognized as the best fighter in each weight class he campagined in, and would not be favored to loose against anyone in any division he fought in, can duran say the same.

Gatti the top guy at 140, Baldomir the top guy at 147? Puh-lease.

you left out genaro hernandez at 130, jose luis castillo at 135, and oscar de la hoya at 154.

was davey moore the ring/lineal champ at 154, what about barkely at 160 was he recognized as the real champ or just a belt holder.

Difference is, Duran wasn't the WBC company man, and actively chased the other title holders. Taking the Hearns fight in '83 saw him stripped of his WBA 154 title, for instance. He could have done a Floyd, held onto his strap, ignored the best in his division while calling himself the greatest ever, and given himself a shiny "championship fights" record for Boxrec whores to cream themselves over, but he didn't.

please list these other title holders that duran so-called chased. besides getting his ass beat against every top fighter of his era who did he really chase. after getting koed by hearns he didn't fight for a title again in over 6 years. can you explain that...who was he chasing from age 32-38 besides the pat lawlors and robbie sims of the world.

I mean the guy only fought in 22 championship fights and that's out of 119 fights. you are really clueless about what you are saying.

you say duran could have held onto his trap and had a glossy championship record, the fact remains he didn't and after getting koed by hearns he doesn't fight for a title again in over 6 years.

the fact that you try and put down floyd for holding onto his title's and defending them is laughable when duran did the same thing at 135

And per your request, their best wins:

130 - Marcel and Hernandez. Marcel not a HOFer yet - unfortunately suffers from not being a heavyweight and not being well known in America - but he will get in eventually. Suffered 4 career losses, two as a teenager, both of which he avenged by KO in rematches; one a controversial home town decision, and the other to Duran. Won the 126lb title a year after losing to Duran, making 5 defences, the last against some guy named Arguello, and retired with his title. Hernandez a fine fighter and a good win for Floyd, but a bit long in the tooth by the time Floyd faced him. Never beat anyone to compare to Arguello. I'd pit Marcel against any of Floyd's comp at 130. Advantage Duran.

once again for all of boxingscene to see:

Ernesto Marcel: 5-0-1 in championship fights 10.8% of his fights were for championships. 4-0 in title defenses..finsihed career 40-4-2. Notable win Alexins Arguello
Genaro Hernandez: 13-2 in championship fights, which means 36.5% of his fights were championship fights. 11 successful title defenses..finished career 38-2-1..Notable win Azumah Nelson

do you still think marcel was the better fighter.

135 - Buchanan & DeJesus and Castillo. Buchanan and DeJesus both HOFers and arguably top 20 lightweights (IBRO has them as just missing the cut, along with PBF), Castillo is not, and imo both would beat him, just as many thought Castillo beat Floyd the first time. Credit Floyd for actually chasing the best, and for having an immediate rematch after a controversial decision (something Leonard often failed to do), but Duran is tops here.

ken buchanan: 3-2 in championship fights, 3-1 in title defenses..which translates to a 7.2% championship fight ratio. champion for 2 years 1970-1972. notable wins: none, after to losing to duran in 1972 never went on to win another title at the weight retired in 1982.

Esteban de jesus: 4-4 in championship fights, 3-1 in title defenses.. which translates to a 12.9% championship fight ratio. champion for 1 year 1976-1977, never regained the title. notable wins: roberto Duran

Jose Luis Castillo: 6-3-1 in championship fights, 5-3 in title defenses.. which translates to a 15% championship fight ratio. 2 time champion first run was champ for 2 years..second run was 1 year. notable wins: diego corrales, joel casamayor, stevie johnston

Diego Corrales: 7-2 in championship fights, 4-1 in title defenses, which translates to a 20% championship fight ratio. 2 divison champion (130, 135) unified the WBC and WBO lightweight title became ring/lineal champion by defeating jose luis castillo. reigned as lightweight champion for 2 years and jr.lightweight champ for 2 years. notable wins: jose luis castillo, joel casamyor

you were saying who had better comp at the lower weights again.

147 - Leonard & Palomino and Judah & Baldomir. Surely there's no need to even argue for Leonard being over those two. As for Palomino, he's also a HOFer and one fight removed from losing his title to Benitez on a SD. Duran does a number on him in one of his best performances. Judah a decent win for Floyd, but loses brownie points for turning down the fight when Judah was undisputed. As for Baldomir...

good victory for duran but it was a fluke in the rematch the better fighter won. and eventhough duran spent 2 years at 147 he was only able to win the title once and never defended it.

floyd at least defended his title in his fourth weight class. can duran say the same.

160 - A division Floyd has yet to enter, and let's face it, is unlikely to. Duran goes 15 competitive rounds with Hagler, a fight he'd have actually won had it been over 12. Five years later at age 37, he beats Iran Barkley, fresh off his brutal KO of Hearns, to become the only lightweight champion to win the middleweight title. Would Floyd go 15 with Hagler or beat Barkley? Would he even try? Hmmmmm....

160 was duran's fourth weight class, 160 would be floyd's 6th weight class you do the math. by the way did duran ever win a title at 168, or 175 his 5th and 6th weight classes.

As I noted earlier, Duran and Floyd were at similar points in their careers by age 29. The difference is that Duran had had twice as many fights and at 147 opted to chase the best in the higher weights into his 30s, which dilutes his record, while Floyd settles for ignoring the best and padding his record with paper titles and shopworn big name fighters. There is no way in hell that Floyd would move up to challenge a big prime middleweight champ the way Duran did with Hagler and Barkley. There is no way in hell that Duran turns down $7m to face Margarito or a call-out from Winky or a shot at the undisputed welter champ the way Floyd did.

a patently false statement used by duran groupies. at the age of 32 duran was washed up..it took him 6 years to fight for a title again. duran wasn't chaing anything during that time period but a hamburger joint and some broads. he wasted good prime years of his career fighting bums and getting beat by them.

duran had over 16 fights at 160 and fought at that weight for 7 years but was only able to win one title and never defended it.

he was never recognized as the best fighter in the world throughout his career like floyd has been recognized.

floyd dominated multiple weight classes jumping from 147 to 154 without a tuineup to take on the legendary oscar de la hoya for the WBC 154 title, something duran never did or could do in his career.

[wpink1]

Duran did against Esteban DeJesus what Mayweather never accomplished, he unified the titles.

Duran did against Leonard what Mayweather never accomplished, he defeated an all time great in his prime.

Roy Jones:

Wins over John Ruiz (HW), Antonio Tarver, Reggie Johnson, JC Gonzales

Roberto Duran:

Wins over Iran Barkley (MW), Davey Moore, Pipino Cuevas, Jorge Castro

The machine,,come on now...your roy Jones analogy is weak....

Jones moved up and beat Hill, Toney, Johnson, Gonzales, Griffith... then ruiz at heavy weight, this is much better than Duran.

Duran sole claim to fame is Leonard as far as a name o his resume. Now as far as dominance you have his lightweight years, but beating Dejesus, kyobashi, Marcel, Buchanon is not legendary. It is merely good. His dominance at lightweight is with out question. You can say Duran was the most dominant in his era, possibly the most dominant lighweight of all time, but was he more dominant than Chavez? Did he beat better fighters on his way up, than mayweather at lightweight, or Chavez, or whitacker.

You all jump to say Duran was the best lightweight of all time, I recall Robinson being a lightweight and beatiing the two champs, who were scared to put their title on the line. Was not Armstrong a lightweight.

You all simply just repeatedly twist everything to hype up Duran....

I have been very objective here. I checked myself about him and Mayweather. I believe duran is better than mayweather as of today, because Mayweather retired with a lot of unfinished business. If mayweather comes back and beats Pacman and margo. Where do we rank him then. I say at that point above Duran.

Unifying the titles is a good thing, but u act as if their where to dominaint belt holders at the time and he moved and beat both of them. Hmmm who did that. Lets see, didnt Ray beat the WBC undefeated belt holder a all time top great, Benetiz, and then his wars with Duran, then beat the WBA belt holder a undefeated all time top great in Hearns, while at the same time having the WBA jr middleweight title a belt he took from a 36-0 champion Kalule, who had never been down amateur or pro and Ray dropped and stopped him.

Then Ray came out of retirement after having only 1 fight in 5 years and beat the undisputed holder of all belts at middleweight, a fighter who beat Hearns and Duran, a fighter who had not lost in 10 years, a fighter who just came off his besst 3 wins of his career, all stoppages, and Ray beat him. However ray bashers want to say a 32 year old fighter in hagler was far past his prime. So again your past your prime after you have stopped all your oppoents including the last 3, who happened to be the best opposition in his career, a career that included losses and draws earlier, but none in the last 10 years. Wow!

You want to talk about a top 10 legend, SRL clearly belongs ahead of Duran. hell head to head he beat him 2 easy times, 1 when he was pretty much inactive and Duran just beat Barkly....Ray won every round. 2nd fight Ray quit, 1 fight duran won by the equivalient of 1 round on each scorecard. One round reverese Ray is 3-0 vs Duran. I guess the fact that to duran fans he won the first fight that is all that is important huh? However didnt duran have a trilogy with Dejesus. Who won that first fight. Help me understand how Duran can have it both ways...? Another major fallacy in the myth of Duran.....

I have been eating your asses up all week on this..please come with something factual or better or it is time to move on.

Your historians that Rank Duran as a top 5, rank nobody but old timers up there. 70's and before. The are stuck in the past. It is time that we realize best of all time does not mean best of yester year. Fighters like Jones, Mayweather, Leonard, tyson, holyfield, pacman,,,etc.. all are fighters that old time historians simply do not give their just due to , because they credit fighter who fight every week, they go to work thn come home put on some gloves fight some bum, win and this goes down on their record. Historians rant and rave about fighters who are not half as phsycially talented pound per pound as say a leonard or Roy, but becasue they had 100 fights vs 80 nobodies, they are some legend. What is funny is that some of you younger people simply play follow the leader. I have read some on here say, why should we not believe these historians.. that is the dumbest statment of the year. We are debating with you....If we wanted the historians opinion we would goggle it.

There is no way fighters in the 60's would have a chance to beat a fighter like roy at middleweight at his peak. They never even dreamed a fighter could have the package that Roy had. They would not even know what him them if they got in the ring vs roy. The great Monzon,, who did he ever fight that came close to a Roy Jones, in speed, strenght, athletic ability, mobility...etc.

It is funny reading some post some not all but some are simply Bert Sugar nut huggers and stuck on ******. I urge you to think for yourself. Use basic common sense. Its like the Celtics of the 60's.Yes they were more dominant with Bill russell being a year in year out winner, but take that team and put them in there today vs the teams today, they would not win a quarter.

Athletes of today are simply bigger, faster, stronger, than your day in day out boxers. Again, you will have the hagler, or the Robinson, etc... but day in day out, it is a much differnet era. The day is gone for what Greb and Langsford use to get by with. They would have a job, come home and then have a fight, sometimes 2-3 times a month. Keep in mindd their opponents where like that too, so they where not fighting like say How roy would prepare for a james toney, or how Ray leoanrd and Duran prepared for each other.

Fighters are simply not given credit, because the style of today minimizes the back and forth slug fest that you use to see. So many think that those fights and fighters where betteer. Funny thing when you see the the two styles collide generally it is the faster, more technicle fighter of the new style that wins. gotti, Liston, duran , chavez...etc.... When they faced the leoanord, ali, mayweather, Whitackers...they could not deal wiht the mobile faster fighters.

[Mr Man]

Ridiculous thread.

That would be my intellectual response. Thank you kindly.

[Brandish]

Duran did against Esteban DeJesus what Mayweather never accomplished, he unified the titles.

why did it take him 6 years to unify 135, and why did he never defend the unified title.

Duran did against Leonard what Mayweather never accomplished, he defeated an all time great in his prime.

diego corrales, jose luis castillo are atg and were in their prime. so please try harder you're making this too easy

Roy Jones:

Wins over John Ruiz (HW), Antonio Tarver, Reggie Johnson, JC Gonzales

Roberto Duran:

Wins over Iran Barkley (MW), Davey Moore, Pipino Cuevas, Jorge Castro

why did you leave out james toney, and bernard hopkins from roy jones list...I smell a rat.

are you trying to compare duran's comp to roy jones..that is funny. are you aware that roy defeated jorge castro first while castro was in his prime, and that duran lost to castro first. talk about a glaring f.u.c.k up

are you also aware that duran fought a shot pipno cuevas. are you also aware james toney knocked barkely out cold, and this same james toney lost to roy jones jr. I mean this is a mad house.

were you actually defending duran by posting this