Tszyu vs De La Hoya & others, how come it didn't happen?

[Benny Leonard]

All the excuses in the world cannot change the fact that an offer had been made that Tszyu was interested in, but Floyd passed on. Floyd chose to pass it up, and signed for Gatti instead.

Please show the article and link for the offer. How much and what each person said. Plus, the meeting between HBO and Showtime coming together.


Floyd went for Gatti for the same reason Tszyu wanted him: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and Fame. It was a big fight and it boosted Floyd into the spotlight...which Floyd wanted as well as HBO.

Kostya was on Showtime

Gatti and Floyd were on HBO

Kostya, from what he said, Hatton was his mandatory. What happens when you don't fight your mandatory?

The fight between Floyd and Kostya was going to be set, from what I know, after both their matches.

[Wiley Hyena]

Many historians like to say: Who did the fighter fight?


So it's not harder for a person to move up and face bigger and better opponents?

Robinson had to move up; nobody wanted to fight him at 147...plus, I'm sure someone like him liked the challenge...which is why he risked fighting the LH Champion.


Imagine it like this: You have other Sports...say Baseball. Each team is put in a division, yet they just don't stick with their division...and by the end of the year, they play the best to see who the best is.



Money is always a part of it...even when a fighter stays put...especially if a fighter stays put...he could be playing it safe.

And sometimes, as you age, you can't make weight anymore so you have to move up.

Length of championship reign is one of the foremost and telling standards in any evaluation of boxing greatness. Regaining the title is another.

Divison hopping in the lower weight divisions to pick up easy belts, generates hype, but from an historical perspective, it doesn't mean that much. In fact, it can hurt a fighter's legacy, unless the fighter convincingly dominates the new division. In those rare cases where a fighter dominates one division and then moves up to dominate the next division, that will add to his legacy. But, it's so rarely done that the most common path to greatness is length of championship reign and general domination of the subject fighter's prime natural weight division. In this case, Tszyu was clearly an ATG.

I'm with Poet on this one. It's rather disgusting when a fighter moves up (or down) to take an easy belt without any real hope of cleaning out the division, but doing so only for the money that the inevitably sop****ric hype brings.

[Wiley Hyena]

Please show the article and link for the offer. How much and what each person said. Plus, the meeting between HBO and Showtime coming together.


Floyd went for Gatti for the same reason Tszyu wanted him: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and Fame. It was a big fight and it boosted Floyd into the spotlight...which Floyd wanted as well as HBO.

Kostya was on Showtime

Gatti and Floyd were on HBO

Kostya, from what he said, Hatton was his mandatory. What happens when you don't fight your mandatory?

The fight between Floyd and Kostya was going to be set, from what I know, after both their matches.

I already posted the article.

[wmute]

I already posted the article.

No. You posted an article were Zoo said someone unrelated to Gatti or Mayweather offered him 10.5mln$ to fight Gatti and Mayweather.

[Benny Leonard]

Length of championship reign is one of the foremost and telling standards in any evaluation of boxing greatness. Regaining the title is another.

Divison hopping in the lower weight divisions to pick up easy belts, generates hype, but from an historical perspective, it doesn't mean that much. In fact, it can hurt a fighter's legacy, unless the fighter convincingly dominates the new division. In those rare cases where a fighter dominates one division and then moves up to dominate the next division, that will add to his legacy. But, it's so rarely done that the most common path to greatness is length of championship reign and general domination of the subject fighter's prime natural weight division. In this case, Tszyu was clearly an ATG.

I'm with Poet on this one. It's rather disgusting when a fighter moves up (or down) to take an easy belt without any real hope of cleaning out the division, but doing so only for the money that the inevitably sop****ric hype brings.

I think both warrant their own merrits.

So Henry Armstrong, Duran, Ray Robinson, etc. picked up easy belts?

I don't think Sugar Ray Robinson had an easy time fighting Middle-weights when he was just a Welter-Weight (who actually started out lighter than that). It was real easy for him to move up to LH to fight Maxim in the blazing heat.

Sam Langford had a real easy time fighting Heavyweights.

Joe Choynski had an easy time fighting HWs as well.

When Duran fought Ray Leonard, that was for an easy belt?
When Shane fought Oscar, that was for an "easy" title. How about when Shane fought Winky or when Oscar fought Tito and Hopkins?
How were they easy challenges?


So did Tszyu have the tougher time; the harder resume than Shane and Oscar?

I don't think Pacquio had an easy time picking up belts.

Why would you hold it against Shane and Oscar for seeing how far they could push themselves?

I would actually put Tszyu just behind the level Oscar and Shane achieved.

The fact still remains that the best fighters were at 147 and Tszyu decided to stay at 140 where the division didn't even compare.


Let's look at who Tszy fought after he lost the title:

1997 and on: Chaves; Calvin Grove; Rafael Ruelas; Hurtado; Gonzalez; Santos; Julio Cesar Chavez; Sharmba Mitchell; Okta Urkal; Zab Judah; Ben Tackie; Jessie James Leija; Sharmba Mitchell again; Ricky Hatton.


VS.

Oscar's resume:

1997 and on: Miguel Angel Gonzalez; Whitaker; David Kamau; Hector Camacho; Wilfredo River; Patrick Charpentier; J.C. Chavez; Ike Quartey; Oba Carr; TITO; Derrell Corley; Shane Mosley; Gatti; Javier Castillejo; Vargas; Luis Campas; Mosley rematch; Felix Sturm; Hopkins; Mayorga; Floyd Jr; Steve Forbes

Shane's resume:

1997 and on: Philip Holiday; Manuel Gomez; Ceballos; Molina; Wilfredo Ruiz; Eduardo Morales; Leija; Golden Johnson; John Brown; Wilfredo River; Willy Wise; Oscar De La Hoya; Antonio Diaz; Shannan Taylor; Adrian Stone; Vernon Forrest (twice); Raul Marquez; Oscar rematch; Winky Wright {twice}; David Estrada; Jose Luis Cruz; Vargas {twice}; Luis Collazo; Cotto; Mayorga

[Poet682006]

And how isn't moving up in weight to challenge bigger opposition not an issue?

It's a greater mountain to climb. Look at what happened to Hatton when he moved up: He struggled against Collazo (who would later be beat by Shane convincingly) and then lost to Floyd Mayweather Jr. when he stepped up in opponent talent level.

I'll give more credit to a fighter that is riksing more. This is why we still hear of the story of David and Goliath. And Great Generals who have taken small armies against greater forces.

I give credit to fighters who establish their legacy by ruling a division not by being belt whores. How the hell can a fighter establish a legacy when he stops in for a cup of coffee and then goes chasing another big purse in another divison?

It was hard for him to get matches. Fighters needed to fight to make money so he kept moving looking for work. They weren't getting paid like they do now. Lots of fighters bounced around divisions looking for work...just like Armstrong.

You AGAIN miss the point about Armstrong: He held those belts AT THE SAME TIME. In essence ruling THREE divisions simultaniously. As I said before if any of these belt whores of today want to impress me then let them do THAT.

He didn't play it safe in the division he felt comfortable; 160. But he didn't move up so we know he knew his limits.

Limits? The dude OWNED the Middleweight division. Why the hell would he want to go party elsewhere?

Yes please...would you. I missed it.

I know it's stretch but I Am assuming you're semi-literate so you can go back and read my posts.

Poet

[Benny Leonard]

=poet682006;4395138]I give credit to fighters who establish their legacy by ruling a division not by being belt whores. How the hell can a fighter establish a legacy when he stops in for a cup of coffee and then goes chasing another big purse in another divison?

So if that division lacks talent, that is somehow better than HOF caliber fighters in the next division? You can't move up 5+ pounds?

THIS IS FIGHTING/BOXING. **** divisions. There are no divisions in the Real World...which is why the Ancient Greeks, who had boxing way before us, had only one division: Everybody fights.

You AGAIN miss the point about Armstrong: He held those belts AT THE SAME TIME. In essence ruling THREE divisions simultaniously. As I said before if any of these belt whores of today want to impress me then let them do THAT.

No, you missed mine: Armstrong was a "belt whore." He should have stayed in one division. What did he need going after those belts and fighters?
He should have been monogamous instead of cheating on his wives {divisions}.

Limits? The dude OWNED the Middleweight division. Why the hell would he want to go party elsewhere?

Yes, limits. You can be the toughest person on your block, but it doesn't make you the toughest person in your city...country...the World.

He new his limits; he stayed put on his block.

He was a Great Middlewight and he knew it; a great MIDDLEWEIGHT.

Why party somewhere else? Because you want to see how skilled you are in the next party that has a higher grade of Models. You might be Don Juan at your neighborhood party, but go to a Armani party and you might be..........

Do you have to move up; NO. But should you hold it against Fighters that want to test their limits by fighting better fighters; NO.



So this is what you are telling me: Fighting people your own size counts more than fighting someone bigger, stronger, more powerful...a harder challenge.

David should have stuck to fighting midgets instead of Goliath. Alexander the Great should have stopped after he took over Greece and never invaded Persia.

The United States should have never fought the British Empire.


Sugar Ray Robinson should have never moved up to Middleweight.

Michael Spinks should have never fought Larry Holmes.

Muhammad Ali should have never gone to Heavyweight.

Oscar De La Hoya should have never moved up to face Tito.

The list goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on....


Never pick on someone bigger and better; know your limits by not testing them; good motto.

But hey, I do give Tszyu and Hagler credit for knowing their limits without having to move up and find out. It took Oscar to fight Hopkins and get knocked out to know his; Shane when he fought Winky.

And maybe for Tszyu it was Phillips.

[Southpaw16BF]

Tszyu and De La Hoya were in serious talks and were close to fighting until Vince Phillps ko'd Tszyu and then talk just died down and faded.

[IMDAZED]

Tszyu and De La Hoya were in serious talks and were close to fighting until Vince Phillps ko'd Tszyu and then talk just died down and faded.

I need facts to back this up, southpaw my man. I don't remember that at all. I do know that Tszyu didn't even fight Phillips until after Oscar had moved up. In fact, Oscar was already fighting at welter when Tszyu fought Phillips. Was he planning on going back? No way.

[Southpaw16BF]

I need facts to back this up, southpaw my man. I don't remember that at all. I do know that Tszyu didn't even fight Phillips until after Oscar had moved up. In fact, Oscar was already fighting at welter when Tszyu fought Phillips. Was he planning on going back? No way.

Dude, not just me alot of people already know this, i think i heard in a Ring, not sure, but dude i don't just make s**** up.Its true.