Why do some guys get credit for defense but others don't?

[ßringer]

Hopkins and Mayweather are hated because they go out of their way to NOT put on a show.

With fighters like Whitaker and Roy Jones Jr, and Ivan Calderon, they make a showcase of their skills. They clown around, they show off, do flashy and exciting stuff.

Hopkins and Mayweather don't. They lower the pace of the fight as low as they can, throw as few punches as they can to win a round, and putting on a show for the fans never even enters their mind.

And at least with Bernard you get a little bit of that shoulder shuffle every once in a while, and he doesn't pretend like he is going to be exciting in the pre-fight build up.

Floyd runs off his mouth, claims he is going to make it a war, then fights like a ***** and doesn't do any showboating.

That part really cracked me up, it is entirely true though. The way Floyd builds up a fight in the media before it happens.

[Sweet Pea 50]

Yeah, Floyd is a *****.....



That ***** would crack your whole head open, then sign the check for the hospital bill. Then throw chips out you.

[pfcwintergreen]

Here's my take on it;

The boxing "masses" *can* appreciate an excellent defensive fighter, but the nature of that fighter's defense must be either A) flashy, or B) something the fighter uses to aid an aesthetically pleasing offense. In most cases, it must be both.

Regarding "flashy", a good example is indeed Roy Jones. ie, someone who relies on pure athleticism to slip punches or dart in and out of range. He seals the deal by showboating...and he also has an excellent and entertaining offensive output.

People like Winky Wright, Mayweather and B-Hop are excellent defensively, but their defense is merely pragmatic and technically very solid; it is by no means "flashy". Winky, for instance, primarily catches punches with gloves, which is far less entertaining than the slipping and showboating that people like Jones, Whitaker and even Muhammed Ali did.

This is why the popularity/perceived entertainment value of people like Mayweather and Hopkins slides dramatically when they stop getting knockouts and focus primarily on winning on points. The same goes for James Toney, who is now fighting at a weight class where he has a very hard time knocking people out; his defense alone not enough to exhibit the entertainment value many fans desire.

Someone like Roberto Duran remains popular consistently, because defense for him was merely an adjunct to his awesome offense.

[ßringer]

Yeah, Floyd is a *****.....



That ***** would crack your whole head open, then sign the check for the hospital bill. Then throw chips out you.

No doubt Floyd was a bad motherfucker but to quote Eddie Murphy, boxing is a "what have you done for me lately?" kind of sport. And Floyd had some serious stinkers before retirement, though the KO of Hatton was ace.

I just laugh at the way he builds up the fights, a normal person would think he had the war mentality of a Hagler or a Margarito simply by the media transcripts and videos.

[deevel79]

Here's my take on it;

The boxing "masses" *can* appreciate an excellent defensive fighter, but the nature of that fighter's defense must be either A) flashy, or B) something the fighter uses to aid an aesthetically pleasing offense. In most cases, it must be both.

Regarding "flashy", a good example is indeed Roy Jones. ie, someone who relies on pure athleticism to slip punches or dart in and out of range. He seals the deal by showboating...and he also has an excellent and entertaining offensive output.

People like Winky Wright, Mayweather and B-Hop are excellent defensively, but their defense is merely pragmatic and technically very solid; it is by no means "flashy". Winky, for instance, primarily catches punches with gloves, which is far less entertaining than the slipping and showboating that people like Jones, Whitaker and even Muhammed Ali did.

This is why the popularity/perceived entertainment value of people like Mayweather and Hopkins slides dramatically when they stop getting knockouts and focus primarily on winning on points. The same goes for James Toney, who is now fighting at a weight class where he has a very hard time knocking people out; his defense alone not enough to exhibit the entertainment value many fans desire.

Someone like Roberto Duran remains popular consistently, because defense for him was merely an adjunct to his awesome offense.

End of thread! Excellent post!!!

[hookoutofhell]

the guy who makes the fight will always be given credit, the team, the boxer, the player whatever it doesn't matter, whichever one shows more intention, shows more courage and desire to make the match-up entertaining is going to have a slight edge.

i'll always respect a defensive fighter i'll always say that he deserves the credit that comes his way - but will i respect, admire him or aspire to be like him in the same way as i respect the agressor - NO!!!!
________
New Mexico Marijuana Dispensaries

[larryx]

hopkins and mayweather are the most hated boxers on this board...why because they are that good ignorance is bliss

[Sweet Pea 50]

Yeah, where was Duran's incredible defensive skills for this one?



Oh, I got it, it's when people WANT it to fit into these notions.
I want to hear it. Is it only because of a fighters decline? Or is it because some have it, and some don't?

[pbftxrs316]

people forget to take into account floyd's and benard's ko ratio. you see, floyd didn't knock out judah, baldomir, nor de la hoya, bigger guys at 147 and 154. that's 3 guys in a row. when floyd beat gatti, he beat the living **** out of him at 140, and gatti was a bigger guy, but the defense floyd showcased in that fight, was just simply put, phenomenal, but that gets over looked by his brilliant offense. so it really doesn't matter in his case. talking about fighters like roy jones. i really admire his talent and respect his witty defensive/offensive ability. he was truly indeed a special fighter. but has roy jones ever been as dominant in on defense or offense against a p4p fighter like a diego corrales like a mayweather? i don't think so. mayweather shattered the record for punches landed against him when he dominated deigo. that is defensive brilliance. people call him a ***** because of how he hypes his fights. well, he hyped his fight up for oscar de la hoya like he did with gatti, and people thought that gatti floyd would show up. but what they forgot to realize is how versatile floyd's skillset was. oscar fought as hard as he could and floyd looked to just cruise like he did with baldomir, landing pot shots and moving out of the way. floyd's mindset to me anyway, seems to be ever-changing in the ring, because he is so damn good, that he could potshot his way to a dmonant victory using great movement to evade punches thrown at him, and to get the most money without taking too much damage, and yet with this type of thinking, sticks to his fundamentals and still wins his fights, that's truly gifted prize fighter. he adapts to the times very well. he has elusive foot movement. flexibility in his upperbody, great timing with his movement, this is great defense people. the reason why he is ****ted on is because he is too good for his own good, and too brash for people, and too arrogant for people to like him. i don't know, people want to see him lose so bad, because they forget wars he was in like with castillo, him fighting hurt, they forget the fight he had with chavez, n'dou, how he fought through adversity against judah, how he adapts to different types of fighters. he knocked out ricky hatton with a beautifully timed and amazingly thrown check left hook. they seem to forget that unlike roy jones, who was knocked out because his dedication to the sport seemed to diminish a tad bit, and with him rapping and doing of this outside stuff, he forgot his hunger 3 times in a row, maybe even 4 if you include the first tarver fight, but mayweather participated with dancing with the stars while training for a fight, and still knocked an undefeated fighter out who trained like a mad man. who can't appreciate this floyd for this. why did he bet hatton? great defense on the inside, great timing, great discipline. being flashy is great entertainment. i appreciate a roy jones jr, ray leonard, and ali, and other people who shuffled their feet and put on entertaining fights, but by no means can you say a fighter like floyd, with how hard he trains, how gifted he is, how disciplined he is, is nothing less than greatness.

and his defense is a huge reason why he is a great fighter, because it is complex and versatile and should be treated as such.

i'll let somebody else defend hopkins.

[pesticid]

This is about Zaghe winning really.
Honestly Zaghe's got the better defense cause he's the only fighter who'll get in your chest throw in bunches and almost never get hit back. Name another fighter who leaves himself open like him and throws so many punches not stepping back and getting hit so little.