Why do some guys get credit for defense but others don't?

[ßringer]

I know this has been asked before but it's never really gotten any kind of an answer. It's one of those things where nobody really knows what the real answer is, so we get a difference of opinion most times.

Why do certain fighters get more credit for defensive ability than others?

I could give a laundry list of fighters with great defenses who never got the credit they deserved, but I'm only going to list 2 examples, of more recent fighters so that everybody can participate in this thread.

Pernell Whitaker is widely regarded as one of the best defensive fighters of all time, and you can't argue with that. During the time he fought he actually did the impossible and got credit, in his own time (Not 30 years later), for his defense.

Roy Jones Jr. is another example of a crafty defensive fighter who got the credit the he deserved during his career. Winky Wright also comes to mind.

On the flipside of the coin you've got guys like a Bernard Hopkins or a Floyd Mayweather.

Hopkins is easily one of the greatest defensive fighters of all time, and his recognition is finally starting to show up on this, but it's been very slow in it's arrival. Most people just say he's old and boring, and never give him the credit he deserves.

Floyd Mayweather is a classic example of a fighter who was amazingly gifted at the defensive game and never got an ounce of credit for it. Whenever he showcased his craft the masses would simply call him a pussy, say he was a coward, a runner, a fake, etc....

And why is defense not a scoring criteria?

Let's say you have 2 fighters, Fighter A, and Fighter B.

Fighter A is a boxer who specializes in volume punching and work rate.

Fighter B is a defensive artist who would rather wait for opportunities he can counter upon to make his opponet look bad.

At the end of the fight, let's say statistics show the following.

Fighter A

Punches thrown - 987
Punches landed - 371

Fighter B

Punches thrown - 501
Punches landed - 399

Fighter A gets the decision 9 times out of 10 based simply upon the number of punches he threw, and Fighter B is called a coward.

But which guy you you rather be in that fight?

[TheGreatA]

Mayweather and Hopkins are always given a lot of credit for their defense.

I would argue that the more offensive fighters who were still very good defensively like Roberto Duran don't get enough of it.

[ßringer]

Mayweather and Hopkins are always given a lot of credit for their defense.

I would argue that the more offensive fighters who were still very good defensively Roberto Duran don't get enough of it.

There are certain examples for your argument as well, Duran being a key choice.

But I'm not talking here at boxingscene, or at other social boxing boards, I mean the boxing masses. The masses can appreciate a style like a Whitaker, but **** on a style like a Mayweather.

It makes no sense. Maybe trying to be rational about it is futile?

[TheGreatA]

There are certain examples for your argument as well, Duran being a key choice.

But I'm not talking here at boxingscene, or at other social boxing boards, I mean the boxing masses. The masses can appreciate a style like a Whitaker, but **** on a style like a Mayweather.

It makes no sense. Maybe trying to be rational about it is futile?

There was as much criticism about Whitaker's style as there was about Mayweather's in my opinion.

Hopkins and Mayweather are hated for many other reasons as well.

[Sweet Pea 50]

A lot of people like the "BLOOD AND GUTS!" warrior. And I like a brawl as much as the next man.
But there is also something about a clinic being put on by a "Runner" that I can appreciate.
Those that can't, Eh............Margarita.

[ßringer]

There was as much criticism about Whitaker's style as there was about Mayweather's in my opinion.

Hopkins and Mayweather are hated for many other reasons as well.

So then you think personal factors go into it as well? The dreaded fanbase that takes everything a guy says/does personally?

And Hopkins and Mayweather aren't the only guys I'm talking about in this thread, I mean any defensive fighter.

Was anybody here alive when Willie Pep was fighting? Can anybody tell me how the boxing masses reacted to his style?

[Squabbles94806]

D-fence

Sure defense is a very very important part of the fight game. However, another aspect of thinking is a great offense is a good defense.

I think people would rather see a fighter who's constantly busy throwing punches, than a fighter who moves and evades.

Personally, i admire the people who have tremendous defense ablility. It doesn't take a man to stand in the way of a punch.

The science of boxing: Hit without getting hit

[TheGreatA]

So then you think personal factors go into it as well? The dreaded fanbase that takes everything a guy says/does personally?

And Hopkins and Mayweather aren't the only guys I'm talking about in this thread, I mean any defensive fighter.

Was anybody here alive when Willie Pep was fighting? Can anybody tell me how the boxing masses reacted to his style?

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1002888/index.htm

Here's an article about Willie Pep from 1958, at the end of Pep's career.

[Zarco]

Because you have to understand that not everyone will be able to ackonwledge the art of defense. I wouldnt too if not for me being a boxer myself. People are not going to watch boxing to see a guy not get hit. Thats why you usually see toe to toe fighters getting massive amounts of followings and credit.

[!! Shawn]

There was as much criticism about Whitaker's style as there was about Mayweather's in my opinion.

Hopkins and Mayweather are hated for many other reasons as well.

Hopkins and Mayweather are hated because they go out of their way to NOT put on a show.

With fighters like Whitaker and Roy Jones Jr, and Ivan Calderon, they make a showcase of their skills. They clown around, they show off, do flashy and exciting stuff.

Hopkins and Mayweather don't. They lower the pace of the fight as low as they can, throw as few punches as they can to win a round, and putting on a show for the fans never even enters their mind.

And at least with Bernard you get a little bit of that shoulder shuffle every once in a while, and he doesn't pretend like he is going to be exciting in the pre-fight build up.

Floyd runs off his mouth, claims he is going to make it a war, then fights like a ***** and doesn't do any showboating.