Bernstein:Roy Jones is a great athlete; he’s not a great fighter

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

He is not the first fighter the hit a sharp decline though. Just because you decline quickly doesn't make you an ordinary fighter. He relied on his speed and reflexes for his defence, this is simply a certain type of defensive technique. Once those fail you, you are going to start to struggle. It does not mean you were never a great fighter.

Actually it does mean that....

Boxing isn't about who is the fastest, strongest and quickest. If that were the case, we would never see champions like JCC, Marciano, Lamotta, JMM etc.

TECHNIQUE and SKILL is what makes great boxers. I have been saying this same thing for many, many years. Roy Jones has actually been hurt because of his incredible natural ability. Once his skills diminished, he had nothing to fall back on.

I think Al Bernstein should have refrased his words a little bit because I think Roy was a great fighter just not a great boxer. His speed and power won him a ton of fights but he wasn't a good fundamental boxer by any stretch.

Let me put it this way, if you want to learn how to box properly, watch Oscar, Leonard, JCC.....do not watch Roy Jones Jr. because the things he does only he can get away with.

[Dynamite Kid]

Definitely, Jones is a very smart fighter, one of the smartest of the modern era but his fundamentals just weren't the best and it showed when he got older.

Roy def is smart. He does good fight break downs, so he understands pros and cons of going into a bout and his own. I just wish he was a bit more introspective on his in ring cons as he slipped. He should've ditched the young man offense and adopted a defense that would allow him to execute a more mature jab oriented offense imo. It would've been the best thing for a man that still has hands so fast, but just about everything else is gone.

In the words of the man himself.......most definitely.

[Jim Jeffries]

I understand the point he's trying to make, but Roy is still a great fighter, at least he was. Do the Spinks, Holmes and Berbick losses show Ali to be any less great of a fighter? Or was he just physically gifted as well?

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

I understand the point he's trying to make, but Roy is still a great fighter, at least he was. Do the Spinks, Holmes and Berbick losses show Ali to be any less great of a fighter? Or was he just physically gifted as well?

Ali was in much worse shape physically than Roy was at that same stage. You also can't deny the boxing SKILLS that Ali had. Roy was such an unorthodox fighter in the sense he would do things that were big time no-no's in boxing.

I remember his fight vs Vinny Pazienza, he threw like a 9 punch combo, starting with the uppercut from about 5 feet away....lol. Who does that? He could only get away with that because he was as fast as a snake and couldn't be countered even when he was wide open.

[hookoutofhell]

bernstein makes a good point some fighters who are exceptionally physically gifted like prince naseem or RJJ often develop their own unique unorthodox style. however the problem comes when they either rely too much on their physcail gifts and become ****y (prince naz) or when they decline (RJJ).

i think if RJJ fought like a conventional boxer he would still be able to beat the vast majority of LHW's out there. but it may be too late for him to learn that conventional style.

as for the hopkins comments - it seems to me as though bernstein is slightly exaggerating bernards so called legacy. his wins at MW were solid but never spectacular the two out of three standout MW fighters from his era beat him (taylor and RJJ). im sorry but you need more than a list of wins over welterweights to be considered as an ATG which he frequently makes himself out to be. fighters like hopkins/DLH dont belong in the top 100.

as for lewis - bernsteins comments are pretty much spot on, his size, strength, offensive arsenal, power, skills and ring IQ mean that he would be a formidable opponent for any HW from any other era.

[THE REED]

Yeah, he used to be great at hooking off a feint, no one was able to get past his jab effectively when he used it, I guess he just wasn't confident about it.

See hooking off a feint isnt just pure athletic ability... it's a tactic. What Bernstein should of said is Roy didn't have fundamental boxing skills... but he's a very smart fighter, and a great fighter...

[hugh grant]

So was SRR a great tecnical fighter? What if SRR didnt have his amazing speed and punch power?
I doubt he would have as good record he has if it wasnt for being a great athlete. Ali was just a jab and long range boxer really. So he is similar to RJJ isnt he. When Ali couldnt dance anymore he just relied on his chin being solid.
All ifs and butts.

[Dynamite Kid]

Ray Leonard was a reflex fighter with good fundamentals, but he was done as fighter by his mid 30.

So i guess there is kind of a contradiction there. I know Ray took ******* that probably took a lot out of his body, but couldn't we equal that with Jones coming down in weight to?

[THE REED]

If we gave Kobe Bryant boxing gloves could he go from middle weight to heavyweight and back down just because hes a great athlete?

NO.

Because Roy was more then just a great athlete, he had skills, unorthodox skills, but skills nonetheless. He understood the game, and how to set people up, and that goes beyond just being a good athlete.

And dropping from HW to LHW at the age of 34 1/2 would have a serious effect on ANYBODY. In the Calzaghe fight, you are simply watching a 40 year old man who has been in over 50 fights.

[Silencers]

See hooking off a feint isnt just pure athletic ability... it's a tactic. What Bernstein should of said is Roy didn't have fundamental boxing skills... but he's a very smart fighter, and a great fighter...

It is, I didn't say he didn't have any fundamentals at all, neither is Bernstein, he just wasn't a great technical fighter.