Calzaghe fans pimp the Eubank win

[abadger]

I don't care what 80% of the posters know or don't. I'm well aware most are uninformed and it appears to me you are one of them.

Your notion that the Hall of Fame is biased for Americans is just dumb and proof that some of you would say or do anything to hype up these fighters. There's a reason why Chris Eubank isn't considered great so how much more a Chris Eubank who was past his prime? And we're supposed to compare him to ****ing Bernard Hopkins?

Absolute DELUSION.

I don't think its as dumb as you make out. The HOF is an American institution, I have NEVER heard a UK poster or pundit refer to it as a measure of how good a fighter is, except in discussions with Americans.

It is absolutely natural that the US boxing media like Ring, HBO, Showtime et al, exhibit a preference to American fighters, it is not a conspiracy, just a natural outcome of the innate nationalism that exists in virtually all sports coverage.

Consider Eubank, Benn, Watson and Collins. Had they been American and fought the incredible matches they did, and held all the same world titles, then I think its pretty obvious they would be widely regarded as greats, with their 'incredible rivalry' talked up till the cows came home. Again, I'm not suggesting any wilful bias, just stating my belief that home favouritism is virtually unavoidable.

[Guest]

I don't care what 80% of the posters know or don't. I'm well aware most are uninformed and it appears to me you are one of them.

Your notion that the Hall of Fame is biased for Americans is just dumb and proof that some of you would say or do anything to hype up these fighters. There's a reason why Chris Eubank isn't considered great so how much more a Chris Eubank who was past his prime? And we're supposed to compare him to ****ing Bernard Hopkins?

Absolute DELUSION.

This is a typical knee-jerk reaction in that you're arguing with me about things I haven't even said.

WHERE did I say we're supposed to compare him to Hopkins? (Though now you mention it... I mean, Hopkins ain't ****. He's no Ray Leonard or Marvin Hagler, is he? Be real now).

WHERE did I say The Bank was a "great"? I just said that if he was a Yank Bank he might be considered as lower tier HOF. As a three time "world" champion at two weights with - IMO - equal or better prime opponents than Hopkins (Jones excepted) then I don't see it ridiculous that he could sc**** in.

As for you not caring about what others on this forum think, my point was I was addressing posters on here in general, before you took it upon yourself to blow your own **** and tell me what a wise and infallible man you are.

[IMDAZED]

I don't think its as dumb as you make out. The HOF is an American institution, I have NEVER heard a UK poster or pundit refer to it as a measure of how good a fighter is, except in discussions with Americans.

It is absolutely natural that the US boxing media like Ring, HBO, Showtime et al, exhibit a preference to American fighters, it is not a conspiracy, just a natural outcome of the innate nationalism that exists in virtually all sports coverage.

Consider Eubank, Benn, Watson and Collins. Had they been American and fought the incredible matches they did, and held all the same world titles, then I think its pretty obvious they would be widely regarded as greats, with their 'incredible rivalry' talked up till the cows came home. Again, I'm not suggesting any wilful bias, just stating my belief that home favouritism is virtually unavoidable.

You know what? You're absolutely right. It's a conspiracy, I tell ya. Chris Eubank was a ****ing great fighter with great wins that went completely ignored. He should be in the Hall of Fame. He certainly is on par with Bernard Hopkins and if he isn't, he damn sure isn't that far behind.

Oh thank you, thank you so much for helping me see the light!

Not to be a **** but, I think this conversation ends here. Keep up the good fight.

[Guest]

You know what? You're absolutely right. It's a conspiracy, I tell ya. Chris Eubank was a ****ing great fighter with great wins that went completely ignored. He should be in the Hall of Fame. He certainly is on par with Bernard Hopkins and if he isn't, he damn sure isn't that far behind.

Oh thank you, thank you so much for helping me see the light!

Not to be a **** but, I think this conversation ends here. Keep up the good fight.

Your inability to engage properly with this converse comes down to (apart from your blatant immaturity) a disregard for non-polemics.

If someone says that The Bank wasn't ****, then it means they're saying he's an ATG and they're desperate to hype a nation's fighter. It also means they're rating him above Hopkins, Ray Robinson... you name it.

You ever heard of grey areas?

[IMDAZED]

This is a typical knee-jerk reaction in that you're arguing with me about things I haven't even said.

WHERE did I say we're supposed to compare him to Hopkins? (Though now you mention it... I mean, Hopkins ain't ****. He's no Ray Leonard or Marvin Hagler, is he? Be real now).

Not to state the obvious but...you responded to a post of mine regarding Hopkins and Eubank. You're either in the conversation or your not. If you have a point, make one. So far, your point is that the HOF is biased for Americans. What insight.

WHERE did I say The Bank was a "great"? I just said that if he was a Yank Bank he might be considered as lower tier HOF. As a three time "world" champion at two weights with - IMO - equal or better prime opponents than Hopkins (Jones excepted) then I don't see it ridiculous that he could sc**** in.

LOL @ a lower tier Hall of Famer. Care to name some examples like Eubank?

As for you not caring about what others on this forum think, my point was I was addressing posters on here in general, before you took it upon yourself to blow your own **** and tell me what a wise and infallible man you are.

I'd rather blow my own d*ck than someone else's. But hey, that's just me.

[abadger]

Unfortunately, just like the US, the UK doesn't equal the world. So while he may be one of Britain's greatest fighters, he wasn't one of the world's, like say...a Bernard Hopkins. An even prime version was worse.

But I love how you kinda ducked my post. You yourself said Hopkins was better pound for pound. You can try to create an out like you always do ("it's not that big a difference") but this tells me you know you're just going all out to protect your hero.

The win over Eubank wasn't even that big a win for Joe in the UK, maybe just Wales. There's a reason for that too. Now in 2008, it's gotten bigger according to you.

Sure.

I can agree with you that prime for prime Hopkins is better than Eubank P4P. One boxer being better than another does not mean that the other cannot also be 'great'. I'm not certain that Hopkins is that much better than Eubank though, its just an opinion and I think in reality they were closer in ability than some imagine.

You are right about Joe beating Eubank not being as big as Taylor beating Hopkins, but that doesn't mean it wasn't as good. As I've stated, P4P I suspect that Joe's Eubank was better at SMW than Taylor's Hopkins was at MW, but again, its just an opinion, there's no real right and wrong. I'd say that in actuality, Joe should have got a bit more mainstream attention for that win (he did get the attention of the boxing world) and perhaps Taylor's win should have got a bit less. One huge factor is that Taylor got to Hopkins first, whereas Eubank had already met someone better than him in Collins.

[Guest]

Not to state the obvious but...you responded to a post of mine regarding Hopkins and Eubank. You're either in the conversation or your not. If you have a point, make one. So far, your point is that the HOF is biased for Americans. What insight.

The HOF is in America and is governed by Americans. Legitimate world title bouts are fought outside America, but don't get the acknowledgement in many cases. Can you see the point? This is not to suggest that ALL non-US fighters are etc etc etc.

LOL @ a lower tier Hall of Famer. Care to name some examples like Eubank?

Funnily enough. Barry McGuigan. How does he get in and not The Bank.

[Zocalo]

The comparison for the Eubank/Joe fight is Hopkins/Taylor. Honestly are people this obtuse?

Lets get some facts out of the way...

Hopkins was in mist of 20 middleweight defenses. He had won the middleweight tournament years before. He was the ring champ and unified all the belts.

Eubank had to go to Dubai and Eygpt for fights for his last two fights prior to meeting Joe. In fact one of the fighters he was matched up with had lost 4 in a row. The other fighter had fought 12 people with no/nada/0 wins. Oh and he had been inactive fighter. What does that say about where he was in his career?

How does that come close to paralleling the Hopkins/Taylor fight?

It takes a special person to be dumb enough to make this comparison.

[Ryn0]

You know what? You're absolutely right. It's a conspiracy, I tell ya. Chris Eubank was a ****ing great fighter with great wins that went completely ignored. He should be in the Hall of Fame. He certainly is on par with Bernard Hopkins and if he isn't, he damn sure isn't that far behind.

Oh thank you, thank you so much for helping me see the light!

Not to be a **** but, I think this conversation ends here. Keep up the good fight.

Your response was totally irrational, the same way American's seem to think that any match not staged in America automatically denounces it's value. It the same with American boxing related group there will always be SOME sort of bias. He's not suggesting they are overly bias but say up and comers from America will receive alot more attention and praise than say an eastern european prospect or world champ with the same amount of talent but it ultimately left in obscurity because he hasn't fought people outside of his home country.

Benn and Eubank would be considered greater if they fought out of America but they would not be "ATG'" material but simply regarded higher than they are today. It's the same with alot of Asian, British and European fighters.

[abadger]

You know what? You're absolutely right. It's a conspiracy, I tell ya. Chris Eubank was a ****ing great fighter with great wins that went completely ignored. He should be in the Hall of Fame. He certainly is on par with Bernard Hopkins and if he isn't, he damn sure isn't that far behind.

Oh thank you, thank you so much for helping me see the light!

Not to be a **** but, I think this conversation ends here. Keep up the good fight.

I agree with what Anorak said on this. I explicitly stated that I did not think it was a conspiracy and then tried to outline what I suppose was an analysis of the way boxing fans and media relate to it. You seem to be looking for black and white 'X is definitely better than Y' statements to the point where you see them when they aren't there.