is calzage an all time great if he beats rjj and retires undefeated???

[IMDAZED]

Ev at 36 I think he would have decapitated the sheeplover. He beat him and knocked him down at 43! Enzo Calzaghe said so after round 11! Joe is ****e and will never be an ATg and never has been. Only idiots who listen to Barry McGuigans sports network propoganda believe this and also think Amir Khan will be the ****. Jackasses.

Well yes, I do believe that a 36yr old version of Hopkins beats Calzaghe. So we agree there.

But at 36 he wasn't in his prime.

I mean seriously guys, he broke the middleweight record of title defenses against Tito. Meaning he was tied for the record before. Meaning he was already pretty ****ing good! Meaning he was probably better in his prime (maybe around his 5th defense like everyone else?) than he was at 36!

Lord....

[Easy-E]

Please tell me who Hopkins beat before he fought Tito and how any of them were any better than Calzaghe's top title defenses? Since Hopkins had a very late start in pro boxing, he did peak later and his prime was past 30 believe that.

The fact you need things like this spelled out to you is amusing enough in itself.

[bsrizpac]

Calzaghe IS already an All-Time great. A win over Jones and Hopkins combined with all the rest, will make JC the best of his generation from MW-LHW!

1. Joe Calzaghe
2. Roy Jones
3. B. Hopkins
4. James Toney

[IMDAZED]

Please tell me who Hopkins beat before he fought Tito and how any of them were any better than Calzaghe's top title defenses? Since Hopkins had a very late start in pro boxing, he did peak later and his prime was past 30 believe that.

Well you have to put the names in context. Furthermore, Hopkins just RUINED some fighters. But anyway...

Well we can start off with the 32-0 Glen Johnson - who he didn't just BEAT, he beat the everloving **** out of him, like no one ever has and no one ever will.

John David Jackson

Syd Vanderpool

Antwun Echols

Joe Lipsey was a highly regarded fighter when Hopkins fought him and he got destroyed too. I know you'll counter with "who did he beat" but I'm just giving you some color.

I could go on. But the fact of the matter is, you probably won't recognize many of them because they were never champs. Hopkins held his belt with a vicegrip. Don King wouldn't let any decent fighter get NEAR his titleholders so Hops had to fight them all.

[bsrizpac]

Calzaghe IS already an All-Time great. A win over Jones and Hopkins combined with all the rest, will make JC the best of his generation from MW-LHW!

1. Joe Calzaghe
2. Roy Jones
3. B. Hopkins
4. James Toney

p4p #3 baby:

[Jim Jeffries]

The fact you need things like this spelled out to you is amusing enough in itself.

Tell me who Hopkins beat before Tito or shut your trap. Obviously Bernard's resume wasn't that great at the time for him to be a 6-1 underdog against a guy whose best weight was two weight classes south.

[IMDAZED]

Tell me who Hopkins beat before Tito or shut your trap. Obviously Bernard's resume wasn't that great at the time for him to be a 6-1 underdog against a guy whose best weight was two weight classes south.

I answered that question in several ways but hey, who am I to say anything?

The guy was making the 15th defense of his middleweight crown against Tito so that should tell you something. After all, someone might say "who had Calzaghe beat before Lacy?" We know thats BS - and it works the same way for Hops.

And Tito being such a huge favorite (it was 3-1 not 6-1 BTW), has nothing to do with Hops and everything to do with Tito-mania. He was considered either #1 or 1A on the p4p charts at the time, had just CRUSHED William Joppy in his first fight at 160, coming off two CRUSHING victories over the 154lb. champs!

And Hops was just some nobody who had tied the record number of middleweight defenses...

[Jim Jeffries]

Well you have to put the names in context. Furthermore, Hopkins just RUINED some fighters. But anyway...

Well we can start off with the 32-0 Glen Johnson - who he didn't just BEAT, he beat the everloving **** out of him, like no one ever has and no one ever will.

John David Jackson

Syd Vanderpool

Antwun Echols

Joe Lipsey was a highly regarded fighter when Hopkins fought him and he got destroyed too. I know you'll counter with "who did he beat" but I'm just giving you some color.

I could go on. But the fact of the matter is, you probably won't recognize many of them because they were never champs. Hopkins held his belt with a vicegrip. Don King wouldn't let any decent fighter get NEAR his titleholders so Hops had to fight them all.

I gotcha. Hopkins didn't fight bums pre Tito, he just made them look that way. Obviously Hopkins' resume craps on Joe's because of guys like Tito, Oscar, Winky and Tarver. But there are a lot of people that say Joe just fought "bums" (I try to shy away from this term), when Bernard fought a lot of the same class of fighters in a lot of his early, single title defenses.

[IMDAZED]

I gotcha. Hopkins didn't fight bums pre Tito, he just made them look that way. Obviously Hopkins' resume craps on Joe's because of guys like Tito, Oscar, Winky and Tarver. But there are a lot of people that say Joe just fought "bums" (I try to shy away from this term), when Bernard fought a lot of the same class of fighters in a lot of his early, single title defenses.

Actually, I'm not sure I agree.

For instance, I like Calzaghe's wins over Sheika and Brewer better than EVERY other win except for Kessler and MAYBE Hopkins. Why? Because they were tougher opponents than anyone else he fought. They didn't really have the names and half the kids on here don't know them (watch them go to boxrec to try to "discredit" this) so they will disagree. But those are the fights that convinced me Calzaghe was damn good.

And a win over Glenn Johnson, who certainly wasn't "green" at 32-0, is pretty ****ing impressive. Especially when you just pound him out like Hops did. That was the best Bernard Hopkins. Unfortunately, no one on this site seems to have seen him.

[IMDAZED]

And one last thing, if you think Hops' victory over Oscar is something that greatly enhances his legacy...don't watch boxing.

Same goes for the Mayweather fanatics who do the same, forgetting that Oscar hasn't a decent win since right after 9/11 and pretty much shows up once a year against a good fighter to lose, then fight a chump, then another good fighter to lose, then a chump...etc.