is calzage an all time great if he beats rjj and retires undefeated???

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  • ExecutiveOutlaw
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    #31
    Originally posted by Tunney
    So you think Roy Jones is no better than Gomez?
    im not comparing them, im just providing a counter-example to your argument

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    • MikeBrew328
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      #32
      Originally posted by VIVA MEXICO!!
      he had 21 straight defenses but mostly against guys i never heard of. he also had the lineal title in 2 divisions.
      Is that impressive to you? lol. I think Mayweather could've fought some of the guys Calzaghe defended against, even at 168. Then he fought an epic fight against a 43 year old man.

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      • Chunk..
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        #33
        Calzaghe's chances against prime fights.

        Calzaghe vs Jones:
        Roy Jones Jr. in his prime would have easily outpointed Calzaghe. Jones was better in almost every aspect. He strengths were better than Calzaghe's. Jones was faster and punched harder. But Jones really has never been a killer instinct guy against high opposition. So it would've been a unanimous decision for Roy.

        Calzaghe vs Hopkins 2001:
        Contrary to popular belief, Bernard Hopkins has never been a BEAST in the ring. I'm not saying he wasn't a great fighter, but never a monster that walked thru his opponents. Hopkins has always been a cagey fighter who relied more on his pheneomenal strategy and technique as opposed to superior skill set. Hopkins has always held, grappled, clinched and fouled his way to victories. Even in his younger days, Calzaghe would've given Hopkins fits w/ his speed and ring savvy. Calzaghe is no spring chicken either. In 2001, I give Calzaghe the nod via split decision. Hopkins only made Trinidad look so bad b/c he was one dimensional.

        Calzaghe vs Prime Toney:
        An in shape, motivated James Toney is perhaps the greatest technical fighter of all-time. He was a master at subtle moves to make his opponents miss and was an excellent counter-puncher. He would've destroyed Calzaghe. Toney's body assault was vicious, and he was great cutting off the ring. Calzaghe doesn't have the power to hurt James, but James would wear that body out and KO Calzaghe by the 7th round. However, fat and lazy Toney might have eeked out a slim decision on talent alone.

        Calzaghe vs Prime Tarver:
        I think Tarver is drastically overrated. So this may be biased. Tarver doesn't fight well in the middle of the ring, which is where Calzaghe would've surely kept the bout. Both are southpaws, so the bout would be awkward for each of them. Tarver has more power, which could be the difference. This one is too hard to call. It could go either way. I'll call a draw here.

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        • Pullcounter
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          #34
          Originally posted by VIVA MEXICO!!
          i think his resume is more of a joke than mayweather but he has accomplished some impressive things.
          hell no calzaghe shouldn't be considered an ATG for beating RJJ and then retiring.

          The RJJ fight is meaningless.

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          • -Antonio-
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            #35
            He's a Hall of famer either way. I'm not sure he's an ATG win or lose.

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            • Pullcounter
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              #36
              Originally posted by Chunk
              Calzaghe's chances against prime fights.

              Calzaghe vs Jones:
              Roy Jones Jr. in his prime would have easily outpointed Calzaghe. Jones was better in almost every aspect. He strengths were better than Calzaghe's. Jones was faster and punched harder. But Jones really has never been a killer instinct guy against high opposition. So it would've been a unanimous decision for Roy.

              Calzaghe vs Hopkins 2001:
              Contrary to popular belief, Bernard Hopkins has never been a BEAST in the ring. I'm not saying he wasn't a great fighter, but never a monster that walked thru his opponents. Hopkins has always been a cagey fighter who relied more on his pheneomenal strategy and technique as opposed to superior skill set. Hopkins has always held, grappled, clinched and fouled his way to victories. Even in his younger days, Calzaghe would've given Hopkins fits w/ his speed and ring savvy. Calzaghe is no spring chicken either. In 2001, I give Calzaghe the nod via split decision. Hopkins only made Trinidad look so bad b/c he was one dimensional.

              Calzaghe vs Prime Toney:
              An in shape, motivated James Toney is perhaps the greatest technical fighter of all-time. He was a master at subtle moves to make his opponents miss and was an excellent counter-puncher. He would've destroyed Calzaghe. Toney's body assault was vicious, and he was great cutting off the ring. Calzaghe doesn't have the power to hurt James, but James would wear that body out and KO Calzaghe by the 7th round. However, fat and lazy Toney might have eeked out a slim decision on talent alone.

              Calzaghe vs Prime Tarver:
              I think Tarver is drastically overrated. So this may be biased. Tarver doesn't fight well in the middle of the ring, which is where Calzaghe would've surely kept the bout. Both are southpaws, so the bout would be awkward for each of them. Tarver has more power, which could be the difference. This one is too hard to call. It could go either way. I'll call a draw here.
              good post.

              I think a prime hopkins beats calzaghe. hopkins dropped calzaghe and even in his old age made it a close fight. a prime hopkins who throws more punches beats calzaghe IMHO.

              calzaghe/prime-tarver is a 50/50 fight. tarver lost to johnson a swarmer and calzaghe is a swarmer, but if hopkins can drop calzaghe for sure tarver can.

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              • Kris Silver
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                #37
                Great post chunk. Pretty much totally agree with the first two. The latter two somewhat agree. Not sure who'd win between Joe and Toney, but I don't think Toney would beat Joe convincingly, think it could be close if Joe prepared well for the kind of fight it'd likely be. He's not always great for that, but is on the bigger fights. He does have a tough chin, and I can't see him getting tired either. He's never been down for more than a few seconds or gotten that tired at the end of the day.

                On Tarver I think Joe edges it, just. Tarver doesn't seem to have the fight in him you'd think given his mouth before hand. Watching the Johnson and Woods fights, amongst earlier ones, I could see Joe taking advantage of Tarver tactically, with Antonio not bringing much to adapt to Joe.

                This is the thing, I'm not sure so many ppl would accept Joe would've been tough fights for these guys even a couple of years ago. Now he's LHW #1 above em all and it's almost kinda back dating this thinking, and some still find it hard to go too so imo.

                Joe's slightly past his prime too, and although he's slightly tactically better these days, he had more power and ferociousness back then, and possibly more grit in a war. Those things would help him as much, if anything more, than the supreme speed and adaptability he relies on today to be #1.
                Last edited by Kris Silver; 07-08-2008, 09:18 PM.

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                • Johnny Rebel
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                  #38
                  Calzaghe IS already an All-Time great. A win over Jones and Hopkins combined with all the rest, will make JC the best of his generation from MW-LHW!

                  1. Joe Calzaghe
                  2. Roy Jones
                  3. B. Hopkins
                  4. James Toney

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                  • Johnny Rebel
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                    #39
                    Originally posted by MikeBrew328
                    Is that impressive to you? lol. I think Mayweather could've fought some of the guys Calzaghe defended against, even at 168. Then he fought an epic fight against a 43 year old man.
                    Why wasn't Hopkins "old" when he beat Tarver, Winky and arguably Taylor twice?

                    It's odd that fighters become "old" or "overrated" AFTER they get owned by Calzaghe!

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                    • Chunk..
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                      #40
                      Originally posted by Johnny Rebel
                      Calzaghe IS already an All-Time great. A win over Jones and Hopkins combined with all the rest, will make JC the best of his generation from MW-LHW!

                      1. Joe Calzaghe
                      2. Roy Jones
                      3. B. Hopkins
                      4. James Toney
                      Thanks for the laugh.

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