Give Floyd a chance to be the greatest : Please

[Dick-Sucker]

He doesn't. He IS a great boxer, but if he wants to remembered as one of say the best 5 of all time, he will have to do something pretty incredible. MORE incredible than beating Pavlik, I would say, and thats without even considering whether Mayweather could actually fight at 160.

Thats a big ask man. I mean floyd is 5 feet 8. And Kelly is 6 feet 2.

I don't think he could win that fight even if he fought perfectly.

?

[abadger]

Thats a big ask man. I mean floyd is 5 feet 8. And Kelly is 6 feet 2.

I don't think he could win that fight even if he fought perfectly.

?

But thats the nature of ATG. It does make big asks of a fighter. Leonard was able to go up and beat Hagler and thats why he is higher than Floyd on the list.

It doesn't HAVE to amazing feats at higher weights though. If there were some incredible Junior Welters or Welters who were all on Floyd's level or higher and he fought them in some great fights then that would help him in his ATG status. The thing is there aren't, so for Floyd to reach that level the only option is to do the type of things we have been talking about.

[Dick-Sucker]

But thats the nature of ATG. It does make big asks of a fighter. Leonard was able to go up and beat Hagler and thats why he is higher than Floyd on the list.

It doesn't HAVE to amazing feats at higher weights though. If there were some incredible Junior Welters or Welters who were all on Floyd's level or higher and he fought them in some great fights then that would help him in his ATG status. The thing is there aren't, so for Floyd to reach that level the only option is to do the type of things we have been talking about.

So Floyd needs to take a fight that he can't win. Get the **** beaten out of him, to be an ATG?

Im not being rude, i hope.

but i disagree man. I think if he dominates Oscar again, Cotto, Margarito and another major threat that would be better.

[Dick-Sucker]

abadger your thoughts?

[abadger]

So Floyd needs to take a fight that he can't win. Get the **** beaten out of him, to be an ATG?

Im not being rude, i hope.

but i disagree man. I think if he dominates Oscar again, Cotto, Margarito and another major threat that would be better.

If Floyd were to beat Oscar again, then beat Cotto, Margarito, Mosley, Williams, Quintana, Berto and whoever else came along then it would help his ATG status no end. He would absolutely go down as one of the greatest fighters ever to lace up gloves, because to do that at welter, after starting much lower, would be an incredible achievement.

Even if he did this though, he would only be 'a great' rather than 'the greatest', because the problem though remains, that the guys I listed are not true 'greats' themselves, not on the level we are talking about anyway, and it is doubtful that a single one of those fights would be very difficult for Floyd. I realise that the standard of oppsition available to him is not his fault, but when you are talking about ATG status you are comparing Floyd to fighters who DID have that standard of opposition, and hence have to be ranked above him, based on what they did in the ring. It's just the way it is.

I don't believe that Floyd has to beat Pavlik to 'prove' himself, he has already done that, just not that he is the best of all time. Pavlik is just an example we are using here, it could be someone else, but to even get near ATG #1 status Floyd would need to do exactly what you describe, which is win a fight it is 'impossible' for him to win. That is what being ATG means.

Put it this way, it was widely considered to be impossible for Sugar Ray Leonard to beat Marvin Hagler, who was a much greater fighter than Pavlik will ever be, but he did it, and he is now recognised as an all time great. The thing is even Leonard isn't ATG #1, that is how hard it is to achieve that status.

[Dick-Sucker]

If Floyd were to beat Oscar again, then beat Cotto, Margarito, Mosley, Williams, Quintana, Berto and whoever else came along then it would help his ATG status no end. He would absolutely go down as one of the greatest fighters ever to lace up gloves, because to do that at welter, after starting much lower, would be an incredible achievement.

Even if he did this though, he would only be 'a great' rather than 'the greatest', because the problem though remains, that the guys I listed are not true 'greats' themselves, not on the level we are talking about anyway, and it is doubtful that a single one of those fights would be very difficult for Floyd. I realise that the standard of oppsition available to him is not his fault, but when you are talking about ATG status you are comparing Floyd to fighters who DID have that standard of opposition, and hence have to be ranked above him, based on what they did in the ring. It's just the way it is.

I don't believe that Floyd has to beat Pavlik to 'prove' himself, he has already done that, just not that he is the best of all time. Pavlik is just an example we are using here, it could be someone else, but to even get near ATG #1 status Floyd would need to do exactly what you describe, which is win a fight it is 'impossible' for him to win. That is what being ATG means.

Put it this way, it was widely considered to be impossible for Sugar Ray Leonard to beat Marvin Hagler, who was a much greater fighter than Pavlik will ever be, but he did it, and he is now recognised as an all time great. The thing is even Leonard isn't ATG #1, that is how hard it is to achieve that status.

Good post. Yeh true with Leonard.

I doubt Floyd has enough fights left in him to achieve such a thing.

I think maybe 3-4 max.

[DiegoFuego]

If Mayweather can beat Cotto, the best 154 lb champion and win a middleweight title, I would rank him #1 all time. As it stands, I think he is top 5-10.

[Dick-Sucker]

If Mayweather can beat Cotto, the best 154 lb champion and win a middleweight title, I would rank him #1 all time. As it stands, I think he is top 5-10.

I do agree with that.

[DiegoFuego]

So Floyd needs to take a fight that he can't win. Get the **** beaten out of him, to be an ATG?
Im not being rude, i hope.

but i disagree man. I think if he dominates Oscar again, Cotto, Margarito and another major threat that would be better.

that's pretty much what guys like abadger and anorak think. you have to get whooped REALLY bad and lose 4-5 times to be the best. you probably have to get knocked out too.

[DiegoFuego]

Hatton is still in the running for best ever if he can get beat his last 4 fights here