Pavlik is the only good opponent for Calzaghe

[deanrw]

Good point, although Calzaghe's workrate didn't show up until the adjustment he made to stop the straight right from ****ing him in the chin repeatedly in the early rounds.

Pavlik-Taylor II was pretty much the same throughout.

By the way, I am prepared to go back on my one-dimensional statement on Pavlik a bit. After thinking about it for a while, I do realize that what he did against Miranda does show that he at least can fight decently on the inside, but for the most part, he still did come forward and throw 1-2's.

I'm glad 2501 agrees with me about the similarities between Pavlik and Kessler.

Seriously, Pavlik's power is not coming with him up to 175, and that would hurt him against Calzaghe.

Pavlik is not a huge puncher, but he is heavy handed with a tall lean frame which gets it's power from leverage and he will carry his Punch up with him and may even increase it.

I never claimed he will beat Joe. I will say he is nothing like Joe has ever faced. I will also say that he is nothing like Kessler as they both are two different beasts. They quite often use a similar approach, but Pavlik only uses it to get to his gravy.

Pavlik is also the best finisher in the sport. Precise and brutal. He is also more than decent on the inside, he ripped Miranda to shreds in there and nobody thought he would be able to do that. Nobody!!

[Fox McCloud]

Pavlik is not a huge puncher, but he is heavy handed with a tall lean frame which gets it's power from leverage and he will carry his Punch up with him and may even increase it.

I never claimed he will beat Joe. I will say he is nothing like Joe has ever faced. I will also say that he is nothing like Kessler as they both are two different beasts. They quite often use a similar approach, but Pavlik only uses it to get to his gravy.

Pavlik is also the best finisher in the sport. Precise and brutal. He is also more than decent on the inside, he ripped Miranda to shreds in there and nobody thought he would be able to do that. Nobody!!

I didn't know who the **** Miranda was, but I always have my doubts about power punching prospects that don't seem to exhibit a lot of skill. The fight with Green made some alarms go off in my head regarding Miranda. What Pavlik did to him is more than I could have expected from anyone other than an established champion at that point though.

Pavlik's finishing ability is up there with the best in the sport. He is very economical and precise, like you said. Props to him for being the anti-Judah in that regard.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree about Pavlik and Kessler. I see the same fighter, although I think Kessler is a better fighter, although not less one-dimensional. I just think he has a better right hand, and his defense is better. Not to mention I think he is more powerful.

[deanrw]

I didn't know who the **** Miranda was, but I always have my doubts about power punching prospects that don't seem to exhibit a lot of skill. The fight with Green made some alarms go off in my head regarding Miranda. What Pavlik did to him is more than I could have expected from anyone other than an established champion at that point though.

Pavlik's finishing ability is up there with the best in the sport. He is very economical and precise, like you said. Props to him for being the anti-Judah in that regard.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree about Pavlik and Kessler. I see the same fighter, although I think Kessler is a better fighter, although not less one-dimensional. I just think he has a better right hand, and his defense is better. Not to mention I think he is more powerful.

I see Kessler as a guy who was trained by a boxing manual. On the surface he seems to have all the tools and against lesser competition he can use them. He does not seem to have that fighting instinct though as he will never deviate from his course. Can he hit harder than Pavlik? I don't know and in the great scheme of things it does not matter. He lacks what Pavlik does have, and that is a warrior's spirit. Pavlik will fight to the end, you can see it the way he fights. kessler was getting outworked badly by Joe, but just did the same thing over and over. He never once tried to bully Joe or throw Joe off his own game plan. He reminds me of Drago in the Rocky movie, all the training in the world, but not a fighter when the going gets tough.

Pavlik will also get in the ring with anyone. He has no fear. Kessler on the other hand, just seems to want to grab one of those vacant 168 cheap change lower champ belts. He seems to just want to be there and fight the exact same Euro fringe retread fighters that he did the first time around.

[Fox McCloud]

I see Kessler as a guy who was trained by a boxing manual. On the surface he seems to have all the tools and against lesser competition he can use them. He does not seem to have that fighting instinct though as he will never deviate from his course. Can he hit harder than Pavlik? I don't know and in the great scheme of things it does not matter. He lacks what Pavlik does have, and that is a warrior's spirit. Pavlik will fight to the end, you can see it the way he fights. kessler was getting outworked badly by Joe, but just did the same thing over and over. He never once tried to bully Joe or throw Joe off his own game plan. He reminds me of Drago in the Rocky movie, all the training in the world, but not a fighter when the going gets tough.

Pavlik will also get in the ring with anyone. He has no fear. Kessler on the other hand, just seems to want to grab one of those vacant 168 cheap change lower champ belts. He seems to just want to be there and fight the exact same Euro fringe retread fighters that he did the first time around.

Did you just accuse Kessler of ducking the best competition?

He beat Beyer, Mundine, an undefeated Andrade (some of the best in the divison at the time he beat them)... still not saying much, I know... but then he put his titles on the line against Calzaghe.

Kessler fighting Calzaghe is a lot more ballsy than Pavlik fight Miranda (what did he have to lose, he was pretty much unknown at that point) and Pavlik fighting Taylor (once again, nothing to lose, he was the challenger and an underdog. There was no other way to be more than a paper champion in that division other than fighting Taylor).

We can argue all day about whatever regarding Kessler, but his opposition at 168 is as good as it gets considering who is in the division.

[deanrw]

Did you just accuse Kessler of ducking the best competition?

He beat Beyer, Mundine, an undefeated Andrade (some of the best in the divison at the time he beat them)... still not saying much, I know... but then he put his titles on the line against Calzaghe.

Kessler fighting Calzaghe is a lot more ballsy than Pavlik fight Miranda (what did he have to lose, he was pretty much unknown at that point) and Pavlik fighting Taylor (once again, nothing to lose, he was the challenger and an underdog. There was no other way to be more than a paper champion in that division other than fighting Taylor).

We can argue all day about whatever regarding Kessler, but his opposition at 168 is as good as it gets considering who is in the division.

Oh I agree with that. Sure he tested himself against Joe as he really had no other option. He was on top with Joe. What I wonder about him though, is he seems to want to go back where he started. Sure he will make a career out of it, but he was obsessed with fighting Mundine again instead of getting into the mix over here like he first expressed he wanted.

The Super Middleweight division is a no mans land. The only time it springs to life is when guys from 160 move into it and spring it to life. Miranda and taylor are in there now, so it's more abuzz and we can thank Pavlik for that. I guarantee you though that both of them will only use it as a spring board to 175.

[Miburo]

Jones is a good opponent. Because if he somehow wins, people might come to their senses.

[deanrw]

Jones is a good opponent. Because if he somehow wins, people might come to their senses.

Nah....they will just move on to another fighter.

[Burner]

Whens the last time Calzage faced a vicous puncher???

Right.......

Pavlik by KO.

[Burner]

Did you just accuse Kessler of ducking the best competition?

He beat Beyer, Mundine, an undefeated Andrade (some of the best in the divison at the time he beat them)... still not saying much, I know... but then he put his titles on the line against Calzaghe.

Kessler fighting Calzaghe is a lot more ballsy than Pavlik fight Miranda (what did he have to lose, he was pretty much unknown at that point) and Pavlik fighting Taylor (once again, nothing to lose, he was the challenger and an underdog. There was no other way to be more than a paper champion in that division other than fighting Taylor).

We can argue all day about whatever regarding Kessler, but his opposition at 168 is as good as it gets considering who is in the division.

Although Kessler clearly wants nothing to do Miranda.

[luv3s2sp00g3]

The point is Pavliks standard game is jab, straight right, double jab, straight right. Is everyone else watching a different Pavlik than I am? No **** if your man is about to go down, then you close in and put the hurt on him with wide hooks and uppercuts. That doesn't mean he's a hook and uppercut specialist. Pavlik just gets in that straight punch range and comes at you with that simple but effective 1-2 until you can stop it or he knocks you out. That said, being one dimensional isn't a bad thing obviously since Pavlik is undefeated still. The one thing he does hes just damn great at. Calzaghe would still box his head off though cos Calzaghe has a plan A, B, and C. And yes Pavlik and Kessler are very similar styles.