Seriously...who believes RJJ was ever Heavyweight Champ?

[THE REED]

Roy coming up from middleweight and capturing a heavyweight title was impressive. I would never discredit that victory.

And i owe you a response on your taylor vs jones post... all fun in debate

[My Name Is...]

Well......

I don't think ANYONE is saying that RJJ was the Undisputed HW champion of the World....

BUT.....was he a champion of one of the belts? ONE of the organizations?
YES! IF RUIZ deserves ANY credit then RJJ deserves 10 times more!

RJJ deserves to be respected for what he did.
Dont forget he started his career fighting at 154 and BEAT
John Ruiz (who I hate) at 226!

Ruiz has been in with some good fighters Evander,golota,Valuev,Kirk Johnson.Rahman etc

If your not ready to tip you hat to RJJ for what he did at HW....your an idiot

i think we got another one. Keep on Preachin.

[crold1]

I think those opposed to the term champion oppose it not because Roy did it but because it's a false honor. If there were no belt, would the win be as impressive? I'd actually say yes, it's still a very good win (though far from his best win). However, the hollow title makes it appear to be more than it was, a weak debate gotcha' point. It's an empty stat; the reality was that Roy moved up and beat the fifth or so best Heavyweight in the world. That's cool; it's not legendary. Jimmy Ellis moved up from Middleweight and did a hell of a lot more at Heavyweight in the greatest field of Heavyweights ever assembled. So did Langford against another great crew of heavies. Hell, so did Mickey Walker (though against a lesser field...but he moved up from Welter). They didn't have empty belts to win so their fights are judged purely on merit. If Roy fans had to stack Ruiz purely on merit, they'd argue about something else. That said, this type of post is there only to stoke Roy-fanatics anyways so everyone loses.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Actually James Toney ws still in fighting shape at that time. His stamina was good BUT he did use Steroids and got stripped of his belt.

And lets not forget that Toney is a superior technician and defensive master. He gave Peter all he could handle in the first fight didn't he. The same Peter who almost defeated Wlad Klitschko on points.

Toney was a 230 lbs fat ass and he beat the hell out of Ruiz. If Ruiz was any real great, he would have handled blown up middleweights. Instead, he just stared at them while they out boxed him. He does not know how to deal with smaller speed fighters at all.

Again, Roy beating him was impressive, but we should not even think about matching him against the all time great heavyweights. You mentioned that you didn't know what would happen if he fought Lennox.

This is what would have happen.

Lennox Lewis vs Razor Ruddock

[vBTube]FCPcA-4IQ2E[/vBTube]

[slicksouthpaw16]

And i owe you a response on your taylor vs jones post... all fun in debate

Did you respond yet?

[Vladimir303]

Toney was a 230 lbs fat ass and he beat the hell out of Ruiz. If Ruiz was any real great, he would have handled blown up middleweights. Instead, he just stared at them while they out boxed him. He does not know how to deal with smaller speed fighters at all.

Again, Roy beating him was impressive, but we should not even think about matching him against the all time great heavyweights. You mentioned that you didn't know what would happen if he fought Lennox. All of this happend AFTER he lost to Jones.

This is what would have happen.

Lennox Lewis vs Razor Ruddock

[vBTube]FCPcA-4IQ2E[/vBTube]

Wow, so now you're going as far as talkin about all-time greats when talking about Ruiz to disprove my point. This just show how bad the heavyweight divison is. Ruiz defeated Rahman, who knocked out Lewis. Ruiz got robbed against the towering Valuev.

Again, Ruiz right now can still compete with any heavyweight out there. And as i've stated earlier, we dont' know what could have happened between Lewis and Jones.

[Mr. Ryan]

Whatever kind of glue you are sniffing, stop it.

George W. Bush is a president. He is also THE president, but only of US of A.
Among other countries, he's only A president.

If we go by what you say in that post, there exist no heavyweight champion as of right now.
Wlad is not undisputed. He does not have all the belts.
You and every other person saying Wlad is THE heavyweight champion only assume he is the best.
He has not beaten the other champions, ergo he cannot be considered THE champion.

As a matter of fact, we can only consider him as A champion/titlist or whatever the cowpoo you want to call it.

It does not matter that Ring magazine or Michael Katz or whoever you care to mention have Wlad as the nr. 1 guy in the division. It's only an assumption.

Either we say that Roy won a title and was a motherslapping champion, or we say that there exist no champion at all.


The thread starter should consider taking his brain back to Ikea; it's clearly broken.

I just believe that someone who actually goes out there and earns the title of "World Champion" in his division should get some respect, enough to say that there should be no other champion amongst him. All others are titlists.

When Buster Douglas knocked out Mike Tyson, Don King tried to turn the tables and say that Douglas was really knocked out by Tyson in the 8th round , but the referee didn't count properly. Being that King had so much influence over these organizations, the titles were held up until an inquiry was completed. Never mind the rules, that a 10 count is up to a referee's discretion. King put money in these guys pockets and they followed his bouncing ball. The people knew who the real champion was and refused to recognize a guy who was knocked out (Mike Tyson) as their heavyweight champion. The alphabet gangs lamented.

What of Don King fighters who, regardless of how they performed in their last fight, find their way into title fights. Does signing with Don King make you that much a better fighter that it automatically warrants a title opportunity?

What I am doing is challenging the validity and credability of these silly organization bodies and refusing to give them the power to say who is champion and who isn't. I knew for sure that Marco Antonio Barrera was the Featherweight champion when he beat Naseem Hamed. Did he have a belt to back him up? No. Did he need one? Hell no.

Whatever belts are out there, good for them. They're making their money in the ultimate racket in boxing. I don't concern myself with all of that because I know who is the best out there now.

A world title is a world title. A guy who is the WBA Heavyweight titlist, that is his title. What's in a title? I can start a company and my job title will be "Greatest Mother****er Ever". Does that make me "The Greatest Mother****er Ever," or does it require more than just that?

To be champion is something completely different. It takes more than just picking up some vacant trinket to be world champion.

Then again, that is your opinion and I'd die to defend your right to type it.

[THE REED]

Did you respond yet?

So far ive been busy

[THE REED]

I knew for sure that Marco Antonio Barrera was the Featherweight champion when he beat Naseem Hamed. Did he have a belt to back him up? No. Did he need one? Hell no.

So from what your saying.. and your opinion...


Some guys are champions that dont have belts

and some guys arent champions that do have belts...

k just checking

[My Name Is...]

I just believe that someone who actually goes out there and earns the title of "World Champion" in his division should get some respect, enough to say that there should be no other champion amongst him. All others are titlists.

When Buster Douglas knocked out Mike Tyson, Don King tried to turn the tables and say that Douglas was really knocked out by Tyson in the 8th round , but the referee didn't count properly. Being that King had so much influence over these organizations, the titles were held up until an inquiry was completed. Never mind the rules, that a 10 count is up to a referee's discretion. King put money in these guys pockets and they followed his bouncing ball. The people knew who the real champion was and refused to recognize a guy who was knocked out (Mike Tyson) as their heavyweight champion. The alphabet gangs lamented.

What of Don King fighters who, regardless of how they performed in their last fight, find their way into title fights. Does signing with Don King make you that much a better fighter that it automatically warrants a title opportunity?

What I am doing is challenging the validity and credability of these silly organization bodies and refusing to give them the power to say who is champion and who isn't. I knew for sure that Marco Antonio Barrera was the Featherweight champion when he beat Naseem Hamed. Did he have a belt to back him up? No. Did he need one? Hell no.

Whatever belts are out there, good for them. They're making their money in the ultimate racket in boxing. I don't concern myself with all of that because I know who is the best out there now.

A world title is a world title. A guy who is the WBA Heavyweight titlist, that is his title. What's in a title? I can start a company and my job title will be "Greatest Mother****er Ever". Does that make me "The Greatest Mother****er Ever," or does it require more than just that?

To be champion is something completely different. It takes more than just picking up some vacant trinket to be world champion.

Then again, that is your opinion and I'd die to defend your right to type it.

Again, do i agree with some of the stuff you said? YES but if we would go to the actual rule book and see if our opinions are right, the answer would be NO. It would be no, because this entire thing you just wrote is all OPINION. it doesnt mean **** when we go by the written law. Point, Blank, Period. The highlighted part says it all, its an opinion.
And to be a CHAMPION you MUST have a belt.