Comparing Floyd vs The All Time Greats.

[RodBarker]

What do you mean by talented? Better fighters head to head?

Duran
Leonard
Robinson
Whitaker
Hearns
Pryor
Chavez
Napoles
Griffith
Gavilan
Armstrong
Ortiz

Those are a few guys just around his weight class that could beat him.

Ortiz Napoles Griffith Chavez Gavilan no way in my view , the others maybe and maybe not , the point with Mayweather is he could compete with any fighter in history his size , nobody knows who would win in these myth matchups but Floyd is in with anyone with a decent shot at winning .

[Sweet Pete]

NEVER MIND.EVERYBODY ELSE GETS IT YOU DON'T.BYE.

No, I think I just disproved your theory is all.

You make no sense. You said "what he can do in the ring". If the other fighters I mentioned can beat him, how is he better? Because he looks flashier? Certainly not because he accomplished more, because he didn't.

In terms of how flashy he looks, sure he may look better, but that doesn't make him better.

Talent is what someone is capable of, if those guys are capable of beating him moreson than he is capable of beating them, I'd say they are more talented at boxing.

[Easy-E]

Found this to be interesting. What are you're thoughts?



1. Quality of Opposition:

Mayweather 8
Leonard 10
Robinson 10
Ali 10

Mayweather is fighting very good opposition but in comparing it to Robinson, Ali and Leonard. Hmmm beating Corrales, Judah (who has lost to almost everyone quality he has faced including Baldomir and Spinks the first time hmmm) Baldomir, and Dlh who clearly was far removed from his prime as evidenced by his losing 5 of his last 12 fights.

2. Quality of Opposition beaten:

Mayweather 8
Leonard 10
Robinson 10
Ali 10

Leonard: Duran twice, Hearns, Hagler, Benitez, all legends.
Ali : Liston twice, Foreman, Frazier (2 out of 3), Norton (2 out of 3), Shavers,
Robinson: To many to name, but some are Maxin, Lamotta, Basillio, Armstrong
May weather : Corrales, Judah (who has lost to almost everyone quality he has faced including Baldomir and Spinks the first time hmmm) Baldomir, and Dlh, Gatti, Castillo.


3. Number of victories Longevity:

Mayweather 8
Leonard 7
Robinson 10
Ali 10

Robinson clearly and easily wins this comparison. Ali dominated two decades and it would have been longer had he not been robbed by the US government. Leonard due to his detached retina and often time-retired career gets the lowest score here. Mayweather is doing just fine by modern day comparisons but since the debate is Mayweather vs. fighters like Robinson and Ali - hmmm - he comes up short.

4. Ability to adapt to another style:

Mayweather 9
Leonard 10
Robinson 10
Ali 10

This was almost a 10 across the board, and could give Mayweather a 10, but he has not faced a truly dominant fighter and had to adapt to win. Many will say it is not his fault, however remember Leonard dominated fighters too, until he faced Duran. Mayweather has a foe out there that he will surely have to change his style to beat, and that would be Williams. If he can switch up and beat him, he will get a 10. I thought long and hard about this, because Mayweather is a boxing masterpiece, but the title of this section is adapt to another style and he has not had to do such, because he has not faced a true legend that will make him.

Ali Changed his style when he had nothing left to utilize certain attributes none of the boxing world knew he had, jaw, heart, will etc. Robinson the same way. He lost a lot of speed and legs and stamina, but still was never ko’d by a fighter, and won vs. the best of a great era. Used boxing skills vs. some, slugged vs. others.

Leonard as mentioned faced Duran two different ways, boxing and toe-to-toe. Hearns, he started out boxing, and then became a slugger, Hagler he reverted back to boxing when he a shell of his old self, Benitez out counter punched the counter puncher.

One thing needs to be pointed out, changing styles is not always a great attribute, but when you face top fighters or freak of natures like Hearns at Welterweight, your ability to switch to the style to beat a great fighter is a tremendous quality to have.

5. Championships:

Mayweather 10
Leonard 10
Robinson 10
Ali 10

All won belts in several weight classes except for Ali, but what do you expect him to do, create a weight class.

6. Boxing ability:

Mayweather 10
Leonard 10
Robinson 10
Ali 10

All great great boxers. I cannot not knock anyone here. I have heard the point that Ali and other heavyweights should not get ranked high here. That is Garbage. If you study boxing you will realize that as you increase in weight you tend to have to do less. If you see the fights with Barrera etc you will see that those fighters throw more punches, do more ducking countering than you will see middleweight fighters do, and so on up to heavyweights.

That very same point can be used as to why a Leonard or a Mayweather can move up and beat bigger fighters because they are used to doing more ‘BOXING” than the bigger stronger fighter, and many times it comes down to who imposes their style on the fight. So Ali gets a 10 here because you have to rate him on the boxing skills needed for the weight class he fought in.

7. Punching power:

Mayweather 7
Leonard 9
Robinson 10
Ali 8

Robinson would get a 15 if I could…Nuff said. Leonard had very good punching power, not like Robinson but he stopped middleweights in Chavarini, and then stopped Lalond. If we were comparing him to Hearns or Duran etc.he would rate lower. Ali had good power, not Robinson power, not Tyson but remember he would stop fighters due to power speed (which results in power many times) in rounds he would call. Not a dynamite puncher but good power. Mayweather outside of Corrales, hmmm lets say his power leaves a lot to be desired. He did brutalize Gatti, but who didn’t, as Mayweather himself called him a club fighter. Has not scratched a top fighter other than Corrales.

8. Defense:

Mayweather 10+
Leonard 9
Robinson 8
Ali 9

Mayweather clearly is the best of the pack here. He would get a 15 if I could. Leonard when he focused on defense was great, limiting Duran (2nd fight), Hagler, Benitez to landing virtually nothing. Robinson based on what I saw he had good defense but his offense was sooooooo tremendous along with his jaw and the fact that he fought. hmmm I have to give him the lower score here, but that is actually a strong strong quality of his.

9. Speed:

Mayweather 10
Leonard 10
Robinson 10
Ali 10

All were super fast for their respective division.nuff said.

10. Chin:

Mayweather 9
Leonard 9
Robinson 10
Ali 10

We could very easily give them all 10’s as Leonard never was dropped until he came back from retirement. Mayweather has only been wobbled once and he responded fantastic. However we cannot rank Leonard and Mayweather up there with Ali or Robinson, it would be insane. Yes they both were dropped, but look at the style of fights they fought, meaning they did more fighting than Mayweather dreamed of ever doing, and for the most part more than ray did. Robinson never ko’d by a fighter (he was stopped due to heat) in all of his fights. Wow.

11. Heart:
Mayweather 8
Leonard 10
Robinson 10
Ali 10

Mayweather simply has not shown us this, YET. He may very well have the heart of a Leonard, but remember Leonard and Ali were knocked on this very attribute as well until they had to show it.



Totals:

Mayweather 97
Leonard 104
Robinson 108
Ali 107

There you have it. This will probably spark a lot of debate. However I removed all bias and scored them on WHAT WE HAVE SEEN THEM DO, not what they are capable of. Ali I ranked him on what is relevant to a Heavy weight, as he is in much different weight class than the others.

Mayweather could possibly move up and pass Leonard based on how he performs vs. Hatton, Cotto, and Williams (if he fights them). I say that simply because Mayweather while not having a Duran, Hagler or Hearns on his resume, can only fight the best in his era. In these fighters he will have moved up and challenged them, and they are at their peak, and are damn good fighters. Thus we will have to give him credit once he does this. If he fights them his quality of opposition moves up dramatically, and if he beats them he will get points there as well. As for heart that is on the table for him to gain points as well along with chin. That being said, I do not think he will stay around for as long as Robinson, so it is not a knock against him there, only in comparison he would come up short.

In summary we have to give Mayweather his props he is the best of THIS ERA. But when comparing him to Leonard, Ali and Robinson, thus far he comes up short.[/B]

I think that numbers wise/ ratings wise that is very accurate, and in many ways shows that Floyd HAS the skills, he just needs to SHOW the skills, and he he won out against Hatton or Cotto, he could be mentioned with those fighters at the end of his career.

The assesments were too biased though.

[Sweet Pete]

Ortiz Napoles Griffith Chavez Gavilan no way in my view , the others maybe and maybe not , the point with Mayweather is he could compete with any fighter in history his size , nobody knows who would win in these myth matchups but Floyd is in with anyone with a decent shot at winning .

He has no shot of beating Hearns at all.

How much do you know of the fighters you gave no chance? Griffith was a top 5 WW and a top 10 MW in my opinion. Much bigger and stronger than Floyd. You give him no chance? I think it's simply a case of you not knowing enough about the fighters. Napoles was another who fought at MW and was a top 5 WW. He was also even better at 135 and 140.

LOL, you give Chavez no chance yet Chavez's protege Castillo arguably beat him? You think Castillo was better than Chavez? Chavez did everything better, and you give him no chance? Care to explain?

[AntonTheMeh]

No, I think I just disproved your theory is all.

You make no sense. You said "what he can do in the ring". If the other fighters I mentioned can beat him, how is he better? Because he looks flashier? Certainly not because he accomplished more, because he didn't.

In terms of how flashy he looks, sure he may look better, but that doesn't make him better.

Talent is what someone is capable of, if those guys are capable of beating him moreson than he is capable of beating them, I'd say they are more talented at boxing.

SO BY YOUR LOGIC A SLUGGER WHO KNOCKS SOME ONE OUT WHO IS MORE TALENTED,IS MORE TALENTED?

[RodBarker]

He has no shot of beating Hearns at all.

How much do you know of the fighters you gave no chance? Griffith was a top 5 WW and a top 10 MW in my opinion. Much bigger and stronger than Floyd. You give him no chance? I think it's simply a case of you not knowing enough about the fighters. Napoles was another who fought at MW and was a top 5 WW. He was also even better at 135 and 140.

LOL, you give Chavez no chance yet Chavez's protege Castillo arguably beat him? You think Castillo was better than Chavez? Chavez did everything better, and you give him no chance? Care to explain?

Followed Emile quite a bit prior and after Tony Mundine beat him ,,, also have quite a few tapes on him and the others in your list , Nino Benvenuti beat him twice by clean boxing and he dont have the talent Floyd has ,,,,,, the point Im making is Floyd is really a jnr welter and he could compete with any jnr welter in history , people always come with a list of old time famous fighters that can in thier view beat so and so and around we go .

You talk of Castillo , it was 5 years ago and Floyd carried injury and he fought him straight up again and won clearly give the guy his dues , I can call some Chavez fights where he looked not real flash at all , you dont pick a guys worst fight and put it on the table against anothers best fight , its the same ol story the old heros become larger than life but when you go and look at the tapes they were all human and some didnt look anywhere near the wraps on them , Floyd can compete with any fighter in history his size , thats the only claim I make , he is a champion of this era , he has done some things no other fighter in history has done and his game is not over with , Floyds place in history is still undecided .

[Easy-E]

On second thought that rating was a little too pro Robinson, he was dropped several times in his career and had good power, but decisioned many of his opponents.

[Sweet Pete]

Followed Emile quite a bit prior and after Tony Mundine beat him ,,, also have quite a few tapes on him and the others in your list , Nino Benvenuti beat him twice by clean boxing and he dont have the talent Floyd has ,,,,,, the point Im making is Floyd is really a jnr welter and he could compete with any jnr welter in history , people always come with a list of old time famous fighters that can in thier view beat so and so and around we go .

How much Griffith at WW have you seen? Same with Napoles? Napoles was kind of like a smaller Monzon, not flashy to look at unless you've seen enough of him to analyze and get his style down(and understand the intracacies of boxing technique). Napoles and Griffith both beat him at WW in my view by virtue of being bigger, stronger, and skilled enough to negate Mayweather's tools. Mayweather is quicker than them, but doesn't have the outside game down against Napoles as he does other fighters, and certainly not the inside game down against Griffith.

You talk of Castillo , it was 5 years ago and Floyd carried injury and he fought him straight up again and won clearly give the guy his dues , I can call some Chavez fights where he looked not real flash at all , you dont pick a guys worst fight and put it on the table against anothers best fight

It was his worst fight because he was facing the best fighter he'd faced. 5 years ago? What's your point? He was better at lighter weights than he is now. Point is, it's ridiculous to say Chavez has "no chance" when his protege who he outclasses in every way did so well against Floyd.

,

its the same ol story the old heros become larger than life but when you go and look at the tapes they were all human and some didnt look anywhere near the wraps on them

Again, sometimes it's about more than looking flashy. Otherwise you'd have more morons that think Naseem Hamed was the best ever.

Floyd can compete with any fighter in history his size , thats the only claim I make , he is a champion of this era , he has done some things no other fighter in history has done and his game is not over with , Floyds place in history is still undecided .

At 130 I may favor Floyd over anyone, with only a few that could possibly beat him. From 135 on up, I can name a lot. The guy in my avatar did everything Floyd did better.

[cortdawg25]

[QUOTE=Sweet Pete;2876936]Which fights or fighters, and how far back are you talking about. I think what you may be confusing is that most fighters of any era aren'tas technical as Floyd. That doesn't mean they're not as good. Many fighters of the past would've done away with Castillo much better than Floyd did.[QUOTE]

Look, I'm not trying to get into a debate about which era is better, but there isn't a fact that suggest that a certain era was better than another. i'm simply saying that watching past fights from great fighter is no different than watching great fights with great fighters today. There skill level looks the same and if the past greats where better, it is by very little. U say past fighters would have done away with Castillo better than Floyd, possibly so, but some past fighters would not have done so well against Corrales. Styles make fights right?

[Quote]Ali was a Heavyweight, so it's obvious he's not gonna be as quick or as impressive in comparison. SRR was better than Floyd in most areas. Floyd was quicker and had better defense and movement. SRR had a much better offensive arsenal. [Quote] I didn't say anything about Ali having to be as quick as Floyd. I said he got hit too much and avoidability is a part of boxing and fundamentals and technicalities are a part of boxing, Ali lacked in those ares compared to Floyd.
[QUOTE]The things he could've been? He was arguably a top 10 boxer of all time. He didn't get ruined by coke until he was already past his prime. He accomplished much more than PBF has and did it against better comp, in more impressive fashion. He dominated a much better fighter in Chavez in a much better fashion than Floyd did to his protege Castillo.[QUOTE] I disagree here, I don't see him as top 10, he had top ten skill though. He also did not do more than Floyd either. He didn't even become a champion til his 4th or 5th yr as pro. Floyd was a champion his whole career. Whitaker just moved from lightweight to welterweight and took some lumps on the way. Floyd is a multiple champ in 5 different weight classes and has no lumps. He hasn't even been officially knocked down. U call getting a draw with Chaves domination? and that was better than what Floyd did Castillo? Floyd beat Castillo the 1st 5 rounds with a torn rotator cuff, that's not impressive?

[Quote]Someone could easily say that Floyd lost to Castillo. And if you appreciate boxing, which you seem to, then I don't see how you gave the fight to Hagler. Also, no way in hell Floyd competes with either of those guys. Hearns destroys him at 147. [Quote]
See above for castillo. i never gave the fight to Hagler, I said SRL didn't beat him. Floyd would be too small for hagler imo and u might be right about Hearns beating Floyd at that time, but Floyd gets SRL

[Quote]Ridiculous. The guys he beat were not as good prior to facing him. If he faced someone who was considered on the level of some of Leonard's or Whitakers opponents, and dominated them like he does, he would be thought of much higher. I doubt he beats Williams today, and I have my doubts about Cotto.

If u doubt he beats Williams and cotto, then u are silly. That lil side jab Williams throws and all those opening and u don't think Floyd beats him. cotto also has way too many openings and he would have lost to Zab if not for those low blows and the tendencies for Zab to stop throwing punches once he gets hurt

He does well in any era, but the best? Nah, he gets beaten by the Leonards, Durans, Whitakers, Hearns's, etcs of other eras.

He beats SRL and Duran and toss up between Whitaker and Hearns in my opinion.

[Sweet Pete]

I didn't say anything about Ali having to be as quick as Floyd. I said he got hit too much and avoidability is a part of boxing and fundamentals and technicalities are a part of boxing, Ali lacked in those ares compared to Floyd

Again, Ali was a Heavyweight, most lighter fighters are more skilled in comparison, but for his size Mayweather was not a better fighter, though he may have been more technical. Mayweather has never proven himself like Ali.

I disagree here, I don't see him as top 10, he had top ten skill though. He also did not do more than Floyd either. He didn't even become a champion til his 4th or 5th yr as pro. Floyd was a champion his whole career. Whitaker just moved from lightweight to welterweight and took some lumps on the way. Floyd is a multiple champ in 5 different weight classes and has no lumps. He hasn't even been officially knocked down. U call getting a draw with Chaves domination? and that was better than what Floyd did Castillo? Floyd beat Castillo the 1st 5 rounds with a torn rotator cuff, that's not impressive?

He beat Chavez, Ramirez twice, McGirt twice, Vasquez at 154 for the title, Haugen, Nelson, Mayweather, Lomeli, Pendleton, Nazario, Paez and in mine and many others opinions De La Hoya.

Mayweather has has beaten an old De La Hoya, Judah, Castillo twice, Corrales, Hernandez, Manfredy, Jesus Chavez, Gatti, Mitchell, Baldomir, etc.

Compare the two, Whitaker arguably beat 5 fighters that were top 10 P4P at the time he fought them. Mayweather beat one in Corrales, and you're trying to tell me in any way, shape or form that Mayweather has accomplished more? Mayweather has titles in 5 weight classes, big whoop, Pea has 4, and fought and beat better competition in better fashion than Floyd did.

See above for castillo. i never gave the fight to Hagler, I said SRL didn't beat him. Floyd would be too small for hagler imo and u might be right about Hearns beating Floyd at that time, but Floyd gets SRL

SRL is better at everything but defense. He is bigger, stronger, much more powerful, faster hands and way better combos at 147, and an overall much better arsenal. Better reach to outbox him from the outside. EVerything is in his favor. He has no advantages except for defense, which he's gonna need a lot of to even survive this fight. Your claim is ridiculous.

He beats SRL and Duran and toss up between Whitaker and Hearns in my opinion.

Well then sorry, you just don't know what you're talking about. I'm pretty sure you're the only one besides Floyd and his family/managers who thinks that.

No way in hell, not a single way, he beats Hearns. Whitaker did everything better, as did SRL, as I've already explained. And if Castillo did that good against Floyd, you think Floyd beats Duran? LOL.