Comparing Floyd vs The All Time Greats.

[Azteca]

Pete, i've had intelligent debates with pink before.....if you dont believe me ask him. I'm sure you guys are well acquainted with each other.

[cortdawg25]

1. He lost in the olympics did not win a gold....
2. His mouth...He must realize that this braggert stuff is tired, and appalls many fans, the fans that will take him to a DLH status in marketablility. He has way more skills than DLH IMO but his persona will and has hurt him..As only now is he getting some media attention and that is because of DLH (the fight and Golden boy promotions)
3. His Style... While he collects wins, he leaves everyone simply thinking what a boring fighter. I personally think his defense is soo good that he is criticised for things he should not be. However what are we talking about. Titles, he will get them if he wins the bout and impresses at least 2 out of 3 judges. However, fans respect, pound per pound adoration..He will need to realize this is also theatre. People pay hard earned money and relate many times to the plights that fighters face (Rocky Balboa, Marciano, Duran, Gotti) and appreciate when a fighter respects that and gives them their hard earned money's worth. Mayweather not only does not give the fan their hard earned money's worth, but he arrogantly flaunts his riches and bithces etc.. in front of them... His sick family is a joke, and he disrepects great fighter who have made it possible for a lower weigh tfighter to earn the hard earned money that were previously reserved for heavyweights and Robinson.

1. He got robbed of the chance of fighting for the gold medal and in that same Olympics wasn't it Floyd that was the 1st defeat a Cuban in how many yrs?
2. I don't care about his persona and what he does out of the ring. i find it funny actually and entertaining. None of that should matter, does he or does not command the ring...that's all that matters.
3. U say he is risk adverse, well in how many fights has he been fighting this way? the last 2 fights against men who outweighed about atleast 20lbs. How can u base a whole man's career off the last 2 fights which he won? What does his skills and accomplishments have to do with people liking him and being turned off. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't SRR hated too, wasn't Ali hated by nation as well. Why we got to tear down people and then acknowledge them later?


It's real simple, based off SKILL and ACCOMPLISHMENTS, should Floyd be mentioned with those all-time greats. If U don't think so, then we will have to agree to disagree

[GazinManchester]

1. He got robbed of the chance of fighting for the gold medal and in that same Olympics wasn't it Floyd that was the 1st defeat a Cuban in how many yrs?
2. I don't care about his persona and what he does out of the ring. i find it funny actually and entertaining. None of that should matter, does he or does not command the ring...that's all that matters.
3. U say he is risk adverse, well in how many fights has he been fighting this way? the last 2 fights against men who outweighed about atleast 20lbs. How can u base a whole man's career off the last 2 fights which he won? What does his skills and accomplishments have to do with people liking him and being turned off. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't SRR hated too, wasn't Ali hated by nation as well. Why we got to tear down people and then acknowledge them later?


It's real simple, based off SKILL and ACCOMPLISHMENTS, should Floyd be mentioned with those all-time greats. If U don't think so, then we will have to agree to disagree

Floyd is boring in the ring, an arsehole out of it. After the next 3/4 fight his name will be added to the list of 'nearly-made-its'

[cortdawg25]

Mayweather opponets have not forced him or anyone else to dig deep...They are not the quality of opponents that a Duran is, or a Hearns is, or a Hagler is. So if Ray had fought fighters like judah, or Baldomir, or ancient DlH...he would not have had to dig deep either..as he did not have to vs Benitez, or Kalule...Your right I dont think Mayweather would have to dig deep vs a Duran, simply because he is not that type of fighter, never shown it, I dont think he ever will. Reason why is he appears to be gun shy, like Jones was. He doesnt want to risk it vs fighters that can hit, and close the show. Yes he will risk if vs Ndou or Corrales (which was his best victory by far) but vs others he is risk adverse. Not bad if it is about winning a decision, but I highly doubt if he fghts Williams he will have the stuff to win when he WILL NOT BE ABLE TO OUT BOX HIM, IF YOU THINK HE CAN, YOUR DUMBER THAN I THOUGHT....

U may or may not be right, that whole argument is opinion. There is know way we can factually say SRL opposition was better. But I do agree with u on Hearns and Hagler, even though I don't give SRL credit for beating Hagler. He beat Hearns though and I think your right that SRL could of handled Floyd opposition in similar fashion as Floyd. I agree with u, SRL was dope...I just think Floyd is better. Mainly because of defense...I'm in awe of that, that's amazing to me what he is able to do and how he rolls punches. That's something SRL couldn't do as well as u said above. IF SRL didn't have some power he would have lost some fights. I've never seen Floyd close to losing and it is unfair to suggest he is gun shy and risk adverse based off a couple fights.

I question your judgment when u suggest Williams can OUTBOX Floyd. He doesn't have the skill yet, if he develops it, then maybe he can give him a run for his $$$ based on his physical size. He doesn't jab like Hearns and he doesn't have Hearns power. The guy he fought on da undercard of Floyd/Baldomir was eating all his 1-2 shots. That jab is somewhat lazy and sideways and his foot work needs work.

[cortdawg25]

Floyd is not a great inside fighter..He knows how to hold and get back out. He has great hooks that he throws as a fighter comes inside. A Great inside fighter is someone like a Duran, Basillio, lamatta...Floyd oh my god..your are soooooo lost. and I like Floyd but dammm you are very lost son.

Floyd is a very nice inside fighter, most of his damage in previous fights were accrued on the inside and in the pocket. I don't know what Floyd fights you have been watchig but he very rarely holds, he very ralley does any foul. On the inside he rolls with punches and then bring uppercuts with the roll. The way he throws sharp short punches in close distances...I mean c'mon, he can do it all.

[GazinManchester]

You said it mate, he's a jack of all trades, master of none

[wpink1]

Cortdawg.....In comparison...That is the key point. Sure a Floyd mayweather who is a all time great, will look on the inside fighting the level of opposition he faced. So did Roy, so Did Leonard before Duran. However, when you have a great inside fighter Ray fought better than Mayweather could dream of fighting and he lost vs Duran. Mayweather stiffest challenge was vs Castillo, and if you compare the energy, the speed, the power the defense the ability to slip punches,,,,the championship qualities of duran and only display that night in montreal vs Castillo you will see what inside fighting is all about, and then compare who good ray leonard fought back in retur in a losing effort. Just go back and look at all 15 rounds of that historic fight. You will see what we are all talking about.

Finally you bring up it is opinion and this and that and that the skill and accompliishments....Hmmm think about this for a second. If what we are discusssing is somethng that Mayweather or anyone else could prove..or simply sign a date on a contract and fight the best of SRR would fight the best of SRL or floyd mayweather, then your right. I often argue your very points when comparing Leonrd vs Duran. However the fact is, and Mayweather simply saying he is better than Ali or Robionson or leoanrd, means that he is subjecting himself to a pound per pound comparison that generally is based off what the large majority of fans, experts, wrtiters, pollls all usuially consider are qualities of all time greats, and who you did it agaisnt, how long you did it for, THE STYLE AND MANNER YOU DID IT IN...., and crowd pleasure in looking at your fights.. No matter how you slice and dice it cortdawg, this is boxing and your looking at 2 different measures when your debating who won a single fight, (which skills, winning by points on at least 2 out of 3 judges,,defense etc.ring generalship) or pound per pound comaprison with the greats....

When comparing with greats you simply will not compare favorable to a fighter that shows the ability to take top oppoentnts out for long period of time aggressivly when neccessary, when your style is defensive in nature. Do i credit mayweather for smarts, and for himself and is career to be almost at the end with millions of dollars, many titles, his looks brain all intact...Yes he is doing the right thing that any smart person would do. However we are not talkign about smarts, we are talking about a savage sport where there have been greats that have accomplished exactly what he has or more vs better fighters in a more devastating manner..which factors in the minds of most who are considered experts, writers, trainers, most fans..etc... If you do not realize that, you will forever be debating issues that in all honestly or not the same when you get down to it....But it appears the same because the topic is all time great pound per pound. Mayweather, just like leonard after he retired, Roy Jones...when you fight in that manner, Cassius clay at first, you a surgely shwoing soome great skills but your respected more in the sport of boxing ...let me correct my self.you are more favorably thought off when you have performances that force the world to see what your made off....

I have always argued that Roy Jones was sooooo dammm good that he may be too good for his own sakes. He has no reason to dig dieep to beat those fighters he faced because he was soo skillful and had speed to burn. However who of a duran, hearns, basillio, hagler level ultimately did he face...You can argue Toney, Hopkins..and i will agree those are two great fighers..However if you knock roy, you surely knock Mayweather as Mayweather does not have Toney or a Hopkins during their peak years..He does have Corrales, who is a little bit short of these two, IMO.

So In summary I am not saying Mayweather is not a top pound per pounder. but his style, and his quality of opposition, allows his pound per pound ranking vs Leonards, Durans, Robinsons, Ali...to pale in compariosn. Is it his fault..not exactly, but he does have 3 -5 very good fighters left that will allow us to firmly understand where we will finally place him. His mouth, his style will sitll come into play with the very people he is appealing to to rank him above a Robinson or Leonard or Ali. He will never win those votes fighting like he did vs DLH or Baldomir..However he will win the fights....

[Sweet Pete]

Hey Cortdawg, how do you say Floyd was robbed in the Olympics and not give SRL credit for beating Hagler but you insist on calling Whitaker's fight with Chavez a draw?

I have you now, just admit that you were bull****ting and I have won that point at least.

[Jim Jeffries]

Floyd is a very nice inside fighter, most of his damage in previous fights were accrued on the inside and in the pocket. I don't know what Floyd fights you have been watchig but he very rarely holds, he very rarey does any foul. On the inside he rolls with punches and then bring uppercuts with the roll. The way he throws sharp short punches in close distances...I mean c'mon, he can do it all.

Floyd throws and pushes off with an EXTREME amount of elbows to open up room in close to throw punches. In the first Castillo fight, he was actually penalized for an elbow to the throat.

[Ryn0]

U may or may not be right, that whole argument is opinion. There is know way we can factually say SRL opposition was better. But I do agree with u on Hearns and Hagler, even though I don't give SRL credit for beating Hagler. He beat Hearns though and I think your right that SRL could of handled Floyd opposition in similar fashion as Floyd. I agree with u, SRL was dope...I just think Floyd is better. Mainly because of defense...I'm in awe of that, that's amazing to me what he is able to do and how he rolls punches. That's something SRL couldn't do as well as u said above. IF SRL didn't have some power he would have lost some fights. I've never seen Floyd close to losing and it is unfair to suggest he is gun shy and risk adverse based off a couple fights.

I question your judgment when u suggest Williams can OUTBOX Floyd. He doesn't have the skill yet, if he develops it, then maybe he can give him a run for his $$$ based on his physical size. He doesn't jab like Hearns and he doesn't have Hearns power. The guy he fought on da undercard of Floyd/Baldomir was eating all his 1-2 shots. That jab is somewhat lazy and sideways and his foot work needs work.

He doesn't need to outbox floyd. Look at what happened between Sandy Sadler and Willie Pep, Sadler was massive for a feather but didn't use his reach he was a rugged dirty brawler. The fight will end up like the Sadler-Pep fights.