I was MUCH less impressed than Lamps, Max and the ****

[Azteca]

Here's some PPV numbers for you guys. Take it how you want this is an interesting debate. Revenue is on the far right in millions.

2007-00-00--- De La Hoya L 12 Mayweatrher --- 2.400.000---$134.4
1997-06-28--- Tyson LDQ 3 Holyfield --- 1.990.000 --- $100
2002-06-08--- Tyson LKO 8 Lewis --- 1.800.000--- $103
1996-11-09--- Tyson LK 11 Holyfield --- 1.600.000--- $53
1995-08-19--- Tyson W DQ 1 McNeeley --- 1.580.000---
1991-04-19--- Foreman L 12 Holyfield --- 1.400.000---
1999-09-18--- De La Hoya W 12 Trinidad --- 1.400.000--- $71.4
0000-00-00--- Tyson KO 5 Bruno --- 1.400.000
1999.03.13--- Lewis-Holyfield I --- 1.200.000
2004-09-00--- De La Hoya LK 9 Hopkins --- 1.000.000 ---$56
2003-09-00--- De La Hoya L 12 Mosely II --- 950.000 --- $48.4
2002-09-00--- De La Hoya KO 11 Vargas --- 935.000--- $47.8
2006-05-00--- De La Hoya KO Mayorga --- 875.000--- $43.8
1999-11-13--- Lewis W 12 Holyfield II --- 800.000
1997-04-00--- De La Hoya W 12 Whitaker --- 720.000--- $28.8
1999-01-00--- Tyson KO 5 Botha --- 700.000
0000-00-00--- De La Hoya W 12 Quartey --- 570.000--- $25.7
1997-09-00--- De La Hoya W 12 Camacho --- 560.000---
2000-06-00--- De La Hoya L 12 Mosely --- 588,000--- $29.5
1994-04-22--- Holyfield L 12 Moorer --- 550.000---
1998-09-00--- De La Hoya-Chavez --- 525.000--- $23.6
2003-00-00--- Jones W 12 Ruiz --- 525.000--- $26.5 --- HBO
2000-00-00--- Trinidad KO 12 Vargas --- 520.000---
2001-09-00--- Hopkins KO 12 Trinidad --- 480.000---
2005-xx-05--- Hopkins L 12 Tailor --- 410.000---
2005-10-00 --- Tarver W 12 Jones (III) --- 405,000 ---
2000-05-00--- Tarver KO 2 Jones (II) --- 382,000 or 275.000?
2004-06-05--- De La Hoya W 12 Sturm/Hopkins --- 380.000--- $19
2005-06-xx --- Mayweather TKO 6 Gatti --- 340,000
0000-00-00--- Lewis KO 2 Grant --- 330.000
2004-11-00--- Barrera W 12 Morales (III) --- 325.000--- $14
2002-06-00--- Barrera W 12 Morales II --- 300.000--- $12
2003-11-00--- Jones W 12 Tarver (I) --- 304,000
0000-00-00--- Tyson NC 3 Golota --- 300.000
2004-05-00--- Jones LK 2 Tarver (II) --- 275.000--- $12 diff info now
1980-06-20--- Duran W 15 Leonard ---- 155.000--- $1.55
1993-03-19--- M. Carbajal KO 7 H. Gonzales --- 150.000
2004-07-31--- Erik Morales-Carlos Hernandez --- 140,000
0000-00-00--- Morales-Ayala --- 125.000
0000-00-00--- V. Klitscko KO D. Williams --- 120.000 ---75.000?
2001-06-08--- Ali W 8 Frazier --- 100.000 female

[pesticid]

1) do you remember how contentious the negotiations were and why it didn't happen for so long?

2) where did it happen? ON US soil. IN A CASINO TOWN.

Right?

Yeah because both fighters have long-term agreements with each broadcaster. This is not the case with Ricky Hatton and Mayweather. Both of them have agreements with HBO.

[pesticid]

Speaking of different Networks broadcasting the same fight. How many PPV's did Lewis vs Tyson generate again Dominicano?

[DIOS DOMINICANO]

I don't fall for your response shots. I'm not joepal, I'm not an idiot. I say the fights, you say the reason that you think they failed, or why in that case it worked. That doesn't happen with me, you can try that with someone else, some other time.

You don't get what I'm saying. HBO STILL AIRS THE PPV OVER HERE, AT THE SAME TIME. The fans over there, CLEARLY don't give a **** about what time the fight happens, as 50,000 plus were AT THE FIGHT. I'm sure they'd stay up to order the fight, regardless of how late it is. As they have with Hatton and his fights. he had a very big crowd wfor his bout with Kostya Tszyu. Nice numbers in terms of ratings, from what I've heard and imagine what it'd be like with Mayweather.

Working out the deal, completely a moot point. It's essentially the same deal. Same fighters, get the same money, and more with the live gate. HBO still works the deal, because it's still an HBO PPV. I don't understand why you think the American dollar would be less. It's the same time for America that they'd get other fights to happen, it's only affected by U.K. PPVs, and you have no numbers to tell me that that would affect it either. Hatton and Calzaghe have fans willing to stay up as late as need be. Plus, the gate is stronger.

The PPV numbers for America wont be affected. THe U.K., I have no reason to believe, would be either. And the gate would be bigger. HBO has no reason to pay either fighter anything less then they are getting now.

If the undercard was THAT BIG of a deal, they could have the undercard take place in America, it's not that big of a deal to have the fights take place in different areas. HBO recently did that, as a mater of fact.

OK. Let me back up for you:

Floyd mayweather is an HBO contracted fighter. HBO can put him in fights vs the baldomirs and judahs of the world and sell X amount. They are the executive producers, and the own the broadcast rights. A fight is "A PROPERTY". You get that, right? So HBO "Owns" that "property".

Now, HBO would have to subordinate (or at least SHARE its rights (property rights) for a UK fight. MOST LIKELY, Sky (or whoever) would be the owner and HBO would purchase the licensing fees and would become a distributor in the US/elsewhere.

HBO has opted, at times, to just distribute. In the entertainment business, this is called a P&D deal. These deals are lower risk, lower cost exposure, but they also limit the upside income. On a big, profitable fight, this type of deal is not optimal.

So, essentially, you are saying that even if the topline revenue was THE SAME, that HBO's profit would be less because of the higher cost structure.

For example, MannyPac is an HBO fighter. but HBO has elected to not exercise its rights on some of his fights because it wasn't economically viable for them.

[DIOS DOMINICANO]

Speaking of different Networks broadcasting the same fight. How many PPV's did Lewis vs Tyson generate again Dominicano?

1,8 mil... @ US$55

[pesticid]

OK. Let me back up for you:

Floyd mayweather is an HBO contracted fighter. HBO can put him in fights vs the baldomirs and judahs of the world and sell X amount. They are the executive producers, and the own the broadcast rights. A fight is "A PROPERTY". You get that, right? So HBO "Owns" that "property".

Now, HBO would have to subordinate (or at least SHARE its rights (property rights) for a UK fight. MOST LIKELY, Sky (or whoever) would be the owner and HBO would purchase the licensing fees and would become a distributor in the US/elsewhere.

HBO has opted, at times, to just distribute. In the entertainment business, this is called a P&D deal. These deals are lower risk, lower cost exposure, but they also limit the upside income. On a big, profitable fight, this type of deal is not optimal.

So, essentially, you are saying that even if the topline revenue was THE SAME, that HBO's profit would be less because of the higher cost structure.

For example, MannyPac is an HBO fighter. but HBO has elected to not exercise its rights on some of his fights because it wasn't economically viable for them.

Listen,

If HBO worked with Showtime, two directly competing networks both of which are based in US and made a big profit they'll do it again. However, they had to deal with Showtime for the sole reason that Mike's next fight had to be on Showtime. Is that the case with Ricky Hatton and Joe Calzaghe? Maybe, I haven't talked to either one or seen any contracts. Now have you?
Another thing, we don't get to watch Sky Sports in NA and the brits don't get to watch HBO over there. You get my drift?

[THe TRiNiTY]

The only way this argument is solved, is if they have two fights. It's not going to happen. Hatton is going to lose, and I wont ever get actual proof of EITHER theory being more correct. So, since I'm honestly bored with the topic and I'm busy at the same time, I'll just leave it as, agree to disagree.

[DIOS DOMINICANO]

Yeah because both fighters have long-term agreements with each broadcaster. This is not the case with Ricky Hatton and Mayweather. Both of them have agreements with HBO.

And does HBO have unrestricted broadcast rights in the UK?

HBO has broadcast infrastructure in the UK?

[kayjay]

I think that Calzaghe fought a good fight. Great stamina. Kept the pressure on and broke down Kessler.

I had it 8-4 CalSlappy.

But I do not see Joe as being a special fighter.

What qualifies one as special? I think it's pretty clear that Joe is in a league only with Mayweather. Whoever is the third best boxer in the sport is not even close to #2.

I think it's also clear that Joe is a league or two above what Hopkins or Toney ever were.

Sorry.

[DIOS DOMINICANO]

The only way this argument is solved, is if they have two fights. It's not going to happen. Hatton is going to lose, and I wont ever get actual proof of EITHER theory being more correct. So, since I'm honestly bored with the topic and I'm busy at the same time, I'll just leave it as, agree to disagree.

I'm still collecting ten grand off you next week.