Julio Cesar Chavez overrated?

[Hitman932]

Erik Morales is the only man here who can claim to be the best ever in a particular weight class (122). Even though Bazooka Gomez holds that title, Morales has a case.

-36-0(28) at 122
-Wins over Barrera, Jones, Zaragoza, McCullough, Acero-Sanchez
-Unified the titles after beating Barrera

The rest of his career was almost icing on the cake. Morales pushed his career harder and did everything faster than Barrera...which is probably why he has little left to give. Both guys were warriors, but Morales CONSISTENTLY took on harder fighters. Morales jumps up to 126 before Barrera and he takes on a better version of Kelley and Ayala and largely dominates them. He beats Chi and Espadas there as well. He has the controversial fight with Barrera and is on the losing end of that one. Still, the recurring theme is Morales' ambition.

Then Morales goes up to 130 after already having a decorated hall of fame career. He blasts out Espadas, takes on a tough hombre in Jesus Chavez (who I believe would beat Barrera at 130) and wins the title, unifies by beating Famoso and beats Manny Pacquiao...who previously dominated Barrera. That win was certainly as good or better than the Hamed win, as Pacquiao will be remembered as a better fighter than Hamed when all if said and done.

Morales was never vulnerable until the end of a long boxing career. He was never dominated and stopped in the middle of his career like Barrera. He beat Barrera's conqueror's and always went to war when he could have coasted...letting his great boxing skills win him the fight. Morales taking on Pacquiao three times at the end of his career was just classic commentary on his whole career. He could have skated and rode off into the sunset but he gave the fans what they wanted and he went out on his shield.

great post, id have to agree morales > barrera, especially when put into these terms..

barrera is gonna lose on saturday too... which doesent diminish his career accomplishments ... just like morales losses to paq do not diminish his

[Gato2012]

Erik Morales is the only man here who can claim to be the best ever in a particular weight class (122). Even though Bazooka Gomez holds that title, Morales has a case.

-36-0(28) at 122
-Wins over Barrera, Jones, Zaragoza, McCullough, Acero-Sanchez
-Unified the titles after beating Barrera

The rest of his career was almost icing on the cake. Morales pushed his career harder and did everything faster than Barrera...which is probably why he has little left to give. Both guys were warriors, but Morales CONSISTENTLY took on harder fighters. Morales jumps up to 126 before Barrera and he takes on a better version of Kelley and Ayala and largely dominates them. He beats Chi and Espadas there as well. He has the controversial fight with Barrera and is on the losing end of that one. Still, the recurring theme is Morales' ambition.

Then Morales goes up to 130 after already having a decorated hall of fame career. He blasts out Espadas, takes on a tough hombre in Jesus Chavez (who I believe would beat Barrera at 130) and wins the title, unifies by beating Famoso and beats Manny Pacquiao...who previously dominated Barrera. That win was certainly as good or better than the Hamed win, as Pacquiao will be remembered as a better fighter than Hamed when all if said and done.
Morales was never vulnerable until the end of a long boxing career. He was never dominated and stopped in the middle of his career like Barrera. He beat Barrera's conqueror's and always went to war when he could have coasted...letting his great boxing skills win him the fight. Morales taking on Pacquiao three times at the end of his career was just classic commentary on his whole career. He could have skated and rode off into the sunset but he gave the fans what they wanted and he went out on his shield.

Pacquiao will also be remembered for kocking Morales' ass the *** out twice. That really overshadows the win whether you want to admit it or not. Barera didnt beat Prince and then get KOd twice by Naz after taht. After the first Barrera fight, Morales had a lot of controversial fights(including the first Barrera fight) where he didnt look very good at all, while in the mean time Barrera was looking spectacular. Barrera was busy beating the great Prince Naz while Morales was unifying against nobodies in controversial fights. Morales is also lucky Jesus Chavez only had one arm when they fought because he probably would have won. He gave Morales hell with only one arm and almost KOd Morales in the first round. And Famoso is nothing special man. Them two wins at 130 were erased when Barrera beat Morales again nd took his belts and then unified with Peden anyway.

o yea and the only reason Morales was able to unify at 122 was because he beat Barrera in that very contoversial fight HE KNOWS HE LOST. He went to Barrera's dressing room after the fight and told him he was the real winner and gave him a medal. Morales also didnt unify at 126 either bro. He only held the WBC belt in that ugly fight vs Chi, then lost his belt to Barrera and won it by vacancy after that. He did unify at 130, but then Barrera beat him and stole his belts hahaha.

[Gato2012]

we can argue all night though.

they both have great careers and this will be argued by many until the end of time.

i will leave it at that.

[oldgringo]

Pacquiao will also be remembered for kocking Morales' ass the *** out twice. That really overshadows the win whether you want to admit it or not. Barera didnt beat Prince and then get KOd twice by Naz after taht. After the first Barrera fight, Morales had a lot of controversial fights(including the first Barrera fight) where he didnt look very good at all, while in the mean time Barrera was looking spectacular. Barrera was busy beating the great Prince Naz while Morales was unifying against nobodies in controversial fights. Morales is also lucky Jesus Chavez only had one arm when they fought because he probably would have won. He gave Morales hell with only one arm and almost KOd Morales in the first round. And Famoso is nothing special man. Them two wins at 130 were erased when Barrera beat Morales again nd took his belts and then unified with Peden anyway.

o yea and the only reason Morales was able to unify at 122 was because he beat Barrera in that very contoversial fight HE KNOWS HE LOST. He went to Barrera's dressing room after the fight and told him he was the real winner and gave him a medal. Morales also didnt unify at 126 either bro. He only held the WBC belt in that ugly fight vs Chi, then lost his belt to Barrera and won it by vacancy after that. He did unify at 130, but then Barrera beat him and stole his belts hahaha.

wow...just wow.

i'm almost sad that i took time to type a well thought out post. i was expecting more from you.

[Gato2012]

wow...just wow.

i'm almost sad that i took time to type a well thought out post. i was expecting more from you.

what were you expecting me to tell you you were right or something? Im impressed by your knowledge but my thoughts on what you said are in my previous posts.

sorry bro.

[GunStar]

I always respected Chavez as a fighter but what I didn't like he was one of those boxers that was getting the special treatment by the people who ran boxing.

Morales > Chavez

[.::|ULTIMATE|::.]

yeah i just got back to school from spring break so i'll have a small break before heavy studies resume to work on one. if you have any good music recommendations that'd be appreciated too. i need a tune that embodies the mexican warrior in erik.

Well the song i was using was Cardigans - My Favorite game. So much Morales has showed so much passion for the sport it just seems very fitting to me.

[.::|ULTIMATE|::.]

Pacquiao will also be remembered for kocking Morales' ass the *** out twice. That really overshadows the win whether you want to admit it or not. Barera didnt beat Prince and then get KOd twice by Naz after taht. After the first Barrera fight, Morales had a lot of controversial fights(including the first Barrera fight) where he didnt look very good at all, while in the mean time Barrera was looking spectacular. Barrera was busy beating the great Prince Naz while Morales was unifying against nobodies in controversial fights. Morales is also lucky Jesus Chavez only had one arm when they fought because he probably would have won. He gave Morales hell with only one arm and almost KOd Morales in the first round. And Famoso is nothing special man. Them two wins at 130 were erased when Barrera beat Morales again nd took his belts and then unified with Peden anyway.

o yea and the only reason Morales was able to unify at 122 was because he beat Barrera in that very contoversial fight HE KNOWS HE LOST. He went to Barrera's dressing room after the fight and told him he was the real winner and gave him a medal. Morales also didnt unify at 126 either bro. He only held the WBC belt in that ugly fight vs Chi, then lost his belt to Barrera and won it by vacancy after that. He did unify at 130, but then Barrera beat him and stole his belts hahaha.

Actually all Barrera vs Morales fights were close and first 2 there is debate for who won em either way. So you can not use that as detractor from Erik's glory at 122 unless ur going to say Morales avenged that in the rematch at 126.

As far as Morales vs Chavez.... Morales was winning before chavez hurt his arm also the sheer fact he hurt his arm ment Chavez now had that arm glued to his face. It was when Chavez opened up that Morales really took advantage of him and dropped him on his ass twice. If anything it was Chavez who wouldnt have made the distance had his arm not gotten hurt.

Barrera's career is nowhere near as glorious as El Terrible's. He went from one tough fight to another, sure Barrera's record is bigger, and yeah Barrera's career is longer... but Barrera has also had the much easier schedule and that's undeniable.

[Gato2012]

Actually all Barrera vs Morales fights were close and first 2 there is debate for who won em either way. So you can not use that as detractor from Erik's glory at 122 unless ur going to say Morales avenged that in the rematch at 126.

As far as Morales vs Chavez.... Morales was winning before chavez hurt his arm also the sheer fact he hurt his arm ment Chavez now had that arm glued to his face. It was when Chavez opened up that Morales really took advantage of him and dropped him on his ass twice. If anything it was Chavez who wouldnt have made the distance had his arm not gotten hurt.

Barrera's career is nowhere near as glorious as El Terrible's. He went from one tough fight to another, sure Barrera's record is bigger, and yeah Barrera's career is longer... but Barrera has also had the much easier schedule and that's undeniable.

Barrera has fought just as good opposition in my opinion. What good fighters did Morales fight that seperate him from Barrera. And please dont say In Jin Chi or any of them guys. If anything, Barrera seperates himself from Morales as far as opposition goes with the fights vs McKinney and Hamed, not to mention hes planning on taking on Marquez and Pac again in the near future.

As far as the first two Barrera-Morales fights, i jsut explained the controversy in the first fight to show that Barrera should be the one of unified the 122 pound titles instead of Morales. I do think Morales won the second fight, and I think Barrera won the first. Barrera deffinately won the third though.

[AlienTanks]

The great Julio Cesar Chavez record goes as follows:

W 108 (87 ko's) | L 6 | D 2 | Total 116

Chavez had 34 fights in Mexico before he fought in the states.
After his first fight in the USA he had 57 more fights and was still undefeated.
Chavez had 31 fights in the United States before he lost. Of those 57 fights he also fought in Paris, Mexico, Puerto Rico and the Kingdom of Monaco. After his first defeat he went on to fight 24 more fights.

He won 5 world titles: WBC Super Featherweight (1984), WBA Lightweight (1987), WBC Lightweight (1988), WBC Super Lightweight (1989), IBF Junior Welterweight (1990), WBC Super Lightweight (1994) in 3 different divisions. Chávez also went undefeated for 89 bouts before originally retiring with a record of 108-6-2, with 80 knockouts. Among the world champions that Chávez defeated in his career are Edwin Rosario, Jose Luis Ramírez, Rocky Lockridge, Meldrick Taylor, Roger Mayweather, Sammy Fuentes, Héctor "Macho" Camacho, Juan Laporte,Tony López, and Frankie Randall, who had taken the WBC Light Welterweight Champion belt from Chávez just four months earlier. He lost to only two champions: Oscar De La Hoya and Kostya Tszyu, and was held to a draw by two others, Pernell Whitaker and Miguel Angel Gonzalez.

A nice record if you ask me.