Is Frazier Overrated?

[paul750]

His career had to be short because of his fighting style, there's just no way a fighter who takes that amount of punishment can have a long career. I agree with the Foreman comment, I think Frazier could have a case for being ranked higher than Foreman, styles make fights, he was never going to beat Foreman, but against almost anyone else, he was a handful.

Foreman beating Frazier dosen't make him the better fighter in an overall sense.

[Kid Achilles]

Frazier had great inside fighting skills, fought at a higher work rate and possessed more stamina than perhaps any other champion except for maybe Marciano, had as much heart as anyone, a solid chin,(just about impossible to completely knock out) underrated hand speed and a better defense than he's credited for.

By saying he's better than Foreman head to head I mean his style would trouble more of the other all time great heavyweights than Foreman's would. I'm not saying he beats Foreman.

You know, I really think Foreman would be seriously tested against a Liston, Holmes, Louis, Lewis or Dempsey. Even a quick handed big puncher of similar size in Cleveland Williams had a chance with Foreman IMO, or a not so quick but unorthodox and immensely strong Ruddock or Firpo would have a shot. Foreman was hittable with a right hand, and though his chin was solid, it was not the best. I'll admit he'd probably beat Marciano and Tyson (though with both men, Tyson especially, it's not necessarily a given if he gets caught early) because of the size difference and how they came right at him but how many good punchers his size, with world class skills, did Foreman beat in his prime?

I think Jack Johnson had a great chance of psyching him out and tiring him out as Ali did, and stopping him late. I wonder if Foreman would even be able to hit Johnson clean on the chin with his wild and telegraphed (though quick and lethal) swings. He was no clever, sharp punching Choynski and lacked Willard's immense stamina and durability to just keep coming forward and ignore all those hard, swift counter punches.

Enough about George though, let's go back to Smokin' Joe. Frazier was a nightmare for anyone except Foreman, who had the perfect style for him. A fighter who can pour on as much pressure as Joe was able to can crack almost any man. Winning a boxing match is a matter of exerting your will on the opponent and Frazier was damn good at this, against top notch opposition. The first fight with Ali is evidence that no matter how fast your hands were, how good your reflexes, and how quick your feet, Frazier could catch up to you. Outboxing Frazier for the duration of a fight was out of the question, so men like Holmes, Liston, Tunney, Lewis, etc. would be in serious trouble.

Foreman could be outboxed, and you'd have to give these guys a chance against him.

What I'm saying is young Foreman (not talking about an older Foreman, he’d morphed into a different fighter by the end of his comeback with his own set of strengths and weaknesses) had the easier style to figure out and had more holes in his game than Frazier. Foreman is a great personality and a top ten heavyweight unquestionably, but Frazier in his prime was more of a complete package as a fighter in my opinion, and has the better wins to his name. I regard Frazier as a greater heavyweight than Foreman.

[Derranged_]

I think that an important factor in considering a fighter's "greatness" is his title reign, or career longevity. You could make the argument that by his tenth year as a pro-fighter was way past his prime and shot.

[!! Mr. Soprano]

BTW..

I appreciate everyone's input.. I'm not trying to debate his greatness.. rather just trying to understand it

[ben41193]

I don't understand why this guy is always in the top 10 HW of all time...
His style does not impress me... He's glory is based on his win over Ali..

He was sure a top fighter, but GOAT?! I don't understand...

His record is 32 - 4 - 1

That's like saying Rahman is a GOAT because he KOed Lewis

yeah thats not a great record but lok at his losses. Do u know who they are too? Of course u do we all do. he lost to George foreman and of course muhammad ali. If anything he is underrated because of the era he fought in.

[Run]

How can he be greater than the man who beat him twice?

Are you saying Junior Jones is better than Marco Antonio Barrera?



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[!! Mr. Soprano]

yeah thats not a great record but lok at his losses. Do u know who they are too? Of course u do we all do. he lost to George foreman and of course muhammad ali. If anything he is underrated because of the era he fought in.

So you're making an argument that because he fought during the times of Ali and lost to Ali and Foreman... he is an all time great?

I man other than Ali, I'm not too familiar with who he beat. I don't see any of those names ever being mentioned among the greats.

[!! Mr. Soprano]

Are you saying Junior Jones is better than Marco Antonio Barrera?

No,

I'm saying how can Fraiser be better than Foreman when he lost to him twice by KO.

[brownpimp88]

Joe Frazier is george foreman's biggest win. He gave ali parkinson's diesease, which is bad to talk about, but its true though. Frazier is ali's most famous opponent, their trilogy was the best ever. His fights were SUPERFIGHTS. Being champ for 5 years during the peak of the division, what more can u ask for.

[ben41193]

So you're making an argument that because he fought during the times of Ali and lost to Ali and Foreman... he is an all time great?

I man other than Ali, I'm not too familiar with who he beat. I don't see any of those names ever being mentioned among the greats.

Well no thats not what im saying im saying he is an atg he just isnt as good as ali or foreman and as a result he seems less skilled because he lives in the shaddow of these two fighters.