the scoring of Ali vs. Frazier I

[Yogi]

I also thought Frazier won the 3rd round by a close margin on the strength of his harder punching, agressiveness, and the way he finished the last portion of the round strong. Even the 4th round could be argued that Frazier won (landed a couple of really good hooks and he again finished the round the stronger fighter...likely influenced the judges with the way he closed it), although I would personally give Ali the edge in that one.

But overall...

Fight 1: 9-6 for Frazier (or 144-139)

Fight 2: 6-5-1 for Ali (or 115-114...the 2nd wasn't quite a 10-8 round)

[BoxingFan2]

You guys are something. It looks like that Frazier had just to be there to win fights. In Manilla Frazier clearly won only two rounds. Rounds 6 and 9. There were a lot of close rounds, but I scored only rounds 3 and 5 for Frazier. So I actually had it even after six rounds. From round 10 till 14 Ali just took it over. His punches landed cleanly and even Norton, another Futch's fighter and Frazier's friend, who was in ringside had to agree that Ali took it over and Frazier was getting hit to much to head. Why don't you guys give credit to Ali for fighting so good inside, especially in third fight. Some of you are saying that Frazier won second. It looks like Ali had to score knock out against anybody to be recognize as a winner, there's a topic for Bonavena fight. No way Frazier won second. Ali danced the whole fight and he was never in any danger. Frazier almost went down in 2nd before referee stopped it.
When I heard rumors about Doug Jones fight with Ali (Clay) being controversial I watched the fight on espn classic and made a copy and watched the fight several times to see if I can give Jones more than three rounds, but I couldn't. Referee in the ring who was closest to the action scored it 8-1-1 for Ali and really that's the way that fight looked like.

[Frazier's 15th round]

You guys are something. It looks like that Frazier had just to be there to win fights. In Manilla Frazier clearly won only two rounds. Rounds 6 and 9. There were a lot of close rounds, but I scored only rounds 3 and 5 for Frazier. So I actually had it even after six rounds. From round 10 till 14 Ali just took it over. His punches landed cleanly and even Norton, another Futch's fighter and Frazier's friend, who was in ringside had to agree that Ali took it over and Frazier was getting hit to much to head. Why don't you guys give credit to Ali for fighting so good inside, especially in third fight.

We do give credit. That's why Ali won the third fight, by fighting so well inside. Why don't YOU give credit to Frazier in the first fight for landing much harder punches, being more aggresive, landing cleaner punches, and executing the fight plan he wanted? Now onto your Manila scorecard. Rounds 6 and 9 were the only two clear Frazier rounds, you said. I actually counted about 5 clear Frazier rounds. 3, 5, 6, 9, and 10. I say 7, 8, 11, and even 12 were all close and could have gone either way. I think your problem is you don't count bodyshots or something. But Frazier rallied big in the 8th after take a lot of punishment early. In the 11th, he was just wailing on Ali in the corner at one point. And Frazier was landing some big headshots too.

Some of you are saying that Frazier won second. It looks like Ali had to score knock out against anybody to be recognize as a winner, there's a topic for Bonavena fight. No way Frazier won second. Ali danced the whole fight and he was never in any danger. Frazier almost went down in 2nd before referee stopped it.

This is exactly the answer I thought you would give. Ali danced the whole fight, but he did nothing spectacular except hold the whole time. Also, as I expected, you brought up the second round where Frazier "almost" went down. Frazier took a hop back, had his feet firmly planted, and was bobbing and weaving to avoid Ali's punches. He would not have gone down.

What was your scorecard for the second fight? 10-2 or something I'm guessing.

[hemichromis]

You guys are something. It looks like that Frazier had just to be there to win fights. In Manilla Frazier clearly won only two rounds. Rounds 6 and 9. There were a lot of close rounds, but I scored only rounds 3 and 5 for Frazier. So I actually had it even after six rounds. From round 10 till 14 Ali just took it over. His punches landed cleanly and even Norton, another Futch's fighter and Frazier's friend, who was in ringside had to agree that Ali took it over and Frazier was getting hit to much to head. Why don't you guys give credit to Ali for fighting so good inside, especially in third fight. Some of you are saying that Frazier won second. It looks like Ali had to score knock out against anybody to be recognize as a winner, there's a topic for Bonavena fight. No way Frazier won second. Ali danced the whole fight and he was never in any danger. Frazier almost went down in 2nd before referee stopped it.
When I heard rumors about Doug Jones fight with Ali (Clay) being controversial I watched the fight on espn classic and made a copy and watched the fight several times to see if I can give Jones more than three rounds, but I couldn't. Referee in the ring who was closest to the action scored it 8-1-1 for Ali and really that's the way that fight looked like.

you don't get points for dancing around!
frasier was very good at cutting off the ring and he scored the most telling blows ali landed more punches but alot of them were glancing blows this is not an amatuer fight!

in manilla ali did not take over from round 10-14

he lost probably 4 of the fdirst fize rounds then between 6 and 12 he won 5 in round 13 is where he was recieving hard blows and not giving much back this continued into 14 untill it was stopped. if they hadn;t stopped it i believe ali would have KOed frazier

to me the second fight was close but in my mind frazier had the lead for the same reason hge did in the first fight

[Krucial]

ali aint lose too bad
he hit em more
n i think the KD is wut convinced judges
but frazier did win in my eyes

[BoxingFan2]

I scored second fight 7-4-1 for Ali. I can't remember which exactly rounds I gave to Ali, I do have that fight but I watched it just few times. I know that Ali won first two rounds, and round 9 big. Last 12th round I scored even. I must admit that's the least interesting of all of their three fights. I agree that Ali was holding a lot in second fight, but Frazier's head pressing Ali's chest and sporadic low blows get overlooked for some reason. Ali had to win this fight to fight Foreman, so he fought more safe fight with dancing and stopping Frazier's attacks sometimes by holding in close. I agree with this last post that Frazier's knock down made a difference. I said in my earlier posts that I don't mind that Frazier got victory in FOTC cause his two big rounds 11 and 15 were more impressive than any rounds that Ali won, it's just when I try to score on round basis I give Ali more rounds, and you can see it is not only me, others mentioned that in their posts. Judges were probably impressed by what Frazier was doing like you are, but I said what I saw in that fight. Also, I do think if judges gave first match to Ali it just wouldn't look right. I stay with what I said about Thrilla, and on this one judges agree with me.

[Steak]

people seem to give Ali rounds merely because of his 'dancing' and rope-a-dope. now, the dancing may look impressive, and the rope-a-dope was a great tactic for wearing down opponents, but you shouldnt get no points for it. the bottom line is, Ali is against the ropes taking punches to the body and some to the head, and while its a clever tactic, you shouldnt win a round for eating punches, even if it does benefit you later on in the fight...
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[Liaison]

I watched the fight again today and still have it 9-6 to Joe, but as I was watching it (especially during the first half of the fight) I couldn't help but think that this was Ali’s prime performance as a fighter. Those combinations were totally awesome. Even though the bobbing and weaving was causing him problems he still stuck in there and still gave Joe problems latter on. Honestly, IMO, if he hadn’t given 100% that fight, he’d be on the canvas sleeping by round nine. Prime performances by both fighters.

[BoxingFan2]

I like your response even though we don't agree with score. What I don't like is when somebody don't give Ali enough credit for the way he fought in this one, like it was all Frazier. Frazier was more shot fighter after this match than Ali was. Ali performed extremely well in this fight, but I don't think it was his best performance. Ali's best performances were in 60's. Probably the best one was against Liston, first fight. The way he moved in ring in that fight is nothing short of art, especially in first and third round. Ali performed better against better opposition, but in 60's he was just simly better. Whatch his first fight with Chuvalo, also tough opponent, maybe the toughest guy that ever fought. Patterson almost never hit him during 12 rounds of one sided fight. Patterson was second fastest heavyweight in history, but still couldn't reach Ali. Please no excuses with Patterson's back injury and Liston's age. If you watch Liston against Williams in their two bouts you can see that its the same Liston that fought Ali, but what happened is that Liston couldn't match Ali's speed. He even had Ali blind in fifth and went on him like crazy but still Ali survived, amazing.

[dassler]

i scored it 8-6-1 for frazier

under the 10-point must system i had frazier winning by 3 points